AR-15 in the Water

[pac-man-10]

Can anyone provide some information on completely submerging an AR-15 in water and firing it without cleaning it (on land). I often see footage of Navy SEALS or other amphibious soldiers swimming towards a shore line with their m-4's and I'm wondering what they need to do (if anything) prior to firing their rifles. Maybe military/ex-military guys have first hand experience doing this sort of thing and can shed some light on this.

In case you're wondering what got me on the topic it's HK's claims regarding the HK 416 and the "claims" that their statements surrounding the vulnerability of the AR series of rifles around water. The topic was briefly mentioned on a recent episode of future weapons but not covered in detail. I really like that show but it's often just a sales pitch for a particular weapon system and as critical as it should be.

 

[Biff]

On leaving the water, the Rangers and Seals will point the muzzle down and retract their bolts slightly to break the surface tension of the water in the barrel and allow it to drain out. Firing an M16 (or any other high powered rifle) with a bore full of water can raise chamber pressures way beyond safe. The .22 caliber bores tend to retain water, so it is advised to retract the bolt, to pull the cartridge part way out of the chamber so that air can enter the chamber and the water will drain out. .30 caliber barrels and larger often can be drained with a good hard shake.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Pac-Man - I saw that episode, and how the gun was buried in sand. I also noticed that if was clearly just covered with sand on the outside, with the port cover closed and the barrel as free from any sand. It was carefully staged.

 

[Frog48]

Planning on jumping in your swimming pool with your rifle?

 

[1911_Mitch]

I know you were just kidding, but....

I have been known to take a hard fall in the woods a time or two. On a rainy day it could cover your rifle in mud or submerge it in a waterbreak puddle. Who knows, you could even fall through the ice - it happens every year (maybe not by those carrying ARs though), however the question is relevant.

 

[doubleg]

Maybe hes making a back up plan for when he takes out a hornet nest with .223 rounds? From what i've seen on tourture tests you can just open the chamber a little to let the water out of the barrel and keep shooting.

 

[FireArmFan]

In the movie G.I. Jane, the SEALS put condoms over their barrels and rubberband them on for when they are in the water. Not saying whether or not that is a factual practice, just saying they did it in the movie. It doesn't really seem like that would make much difference would it? because water could still get into the action.

 

[Prince Yamato]

get an AK, problem solved

 

[1911 guy]

Open the action.

Opening the action is the best way to do it. If you know you'll be in water or know you'll have time to cycle to action before firing, leave the chamber empty. Otherwise, just eject the round. Partially cycling is a no-go. A round partially in the chamber will prevent the air from breaking the surface tension and draining the water. Trying to retract it enough to clear while retaining the round in the bolt face could result in a self-induced double feed.

If you're using a bolt action, you can see the bolt and next round, so it's not much of an issue. For AR types, though, just eject the round.

 

[El Tejon]

pac, in the 1950s all kinds of torture test were done with the AR by the services and by Armalite rep Bobby MacDonald. Check out the book The Black Rifle: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rifle-Retrospective-Modern-Military/dp/0889351155

 

[geekWithA.45]

As I recall, the partial bolt retraction for draining the barrel is actually in the manual.

 

[pac-man-10]

Thanks for the info, does water get into the gas tube?

 

[Nhsport]

No experience but in thinking it over----
Condom on barrel has about even chance of holding water in. Covering barrel to keep out mud,snow ,or dust would be good but a complete dunking is something else again.
Water in gas tube would be blown out,might fail to cycle once or twice but would self fix.
Water in buffer tube would hang the action up also,seems that that is the reason for the hole in the upper screw (drain hole)
Seems that if my gun went completely underwater I would pull the magazine,cycle the charging handle several times while holding the rifle both straight up and also straight down,then check the barrel for mud,snow,ice ,seaweed or whatever before loading live ammo and pulling the trigger.

 

[HorseSoldier]

As I recall, the partial bolt retraction for draining the barrel is actually in the manual.

It's also part of the procedure for a deliberate load (retract bolt far enough to observe round or, in the dark, touch it with your finger). No risk of a double feed once you do it a time or two to get the hang of it.

 

[DMK]

I agree with 1911 guy. Just point the rifle down and cycle the action, or leave the bolt locked back if possible.

Also need to make sure the vent hole in the buffer tube is clear to prevent a hydrolock of the buffer.

I don't think water in the gas tube would be a problem. Either it will blow out or it won't. If it doesn't, just manual cycle again.

 

[mswestfall]

The show I watched said that one of the main reasons for replacing the M 16 was that the gas tube filled up with water and when fired, split.

I don't know if it's true, just what I saw on The Discovery Channel.

 

[possum]

Covering barrel to keep out mud,snow ,or dust would be good but a complete dunking is something else again.

we use the black muzzle covers for this reason, and they work great. as far as getting in the water we only do that with rubber duckies when we are doing drown proffing, but it would be cool to try that out on militay equipment.

 

[andy4731]

Watch the torture test in this link. Very interesting in regards to submersion:

Torture Test