AR-15 maintenance

[Al Thompson]

Here's an exert from Pat's article:

My cleaning regime may be different from conventional protocol, but it works, and has stood the test of time. I’ll field strip the carbine, and punch the tube with a wet patch. Leave the chemicals to do their work and get to the bolt/ bolt carrier assemblies. Clean the bolt carrier assembly by removing carbon from the bolt cam pin slot, inside of the bolt carrier (yeah, that chrome lined thing where the bolt goes in) and the bottom of the bolt carrier itself. You can use a wet pipe cleaner to clean the inside of the bolt carrier key. Do not put anything inside of the gas tube- it is unnecessary, and you will only stick debris in there that can do no good.

Use your toothbrush to clean the bolt, specifically the bolt lugs. Do not concern yourself with the carbon build up on the bolts tail. No matter how you clean it, it will just reappear the next time you shoot it. I had an armorer once tell me that the carbon promoted corrosion. That may well be if the gun is never shot, but I have yet to see a working bolt corrode away.

Attach that chamber brush to your cleaning rod and scrub out the chamber. I generally use a worn brush, wrap a wet patch around it and insert it in the chamber. Spin it a few times and replace it with a fresh brush. Spin that and then dry the chamber out. Clean out the locking lugs with cotton swabs. Clean out the upper receiver and charging handle. Your toothbrush and cotton swabs work well here. Take a few dry patches and clean the barrel. Note that I don’t normally use a bore brush, and allow the cleaning fluid take care of the bore. Before the rockets start flying, I used to shoot Service Rifle, and am a High Master and a Distinguished Rifleman. I rarely used a brush on my M14NM or match AR15’s. If I felt that the bore was heavily fouled I ran several wet patches through, and if I absolutely felt the need for a brush it was nylon- not copper. Never ever use a stainless steel brush in your barrel. Understand that this is for a carbine, which by virtue of its definition is a short-barreled rifle. The 5.56x45 mm service rounds and M4 carbines are certainly capable of hitting out past 500m, but it shines in fight that takes place under 200m. Bothering with inconsequential increments may not be useful under these circumstances.
However, if you have an SPR type, by all means give the care to that barrel that it deserves, but that care may be waster on a 10.5”-14.5 “ carbine.

 

[Tirod]

There are some good reasons shooters choose to use an automotive lubricant. First, the automotive engine works at much higher temperatures and stress levels than the few sliding surfaces in an AR. Where an auto piston is designed to operate accepting every footpound of force it can, and in direct contact with the flame front doing it, the bolt of the AR is protected by the case, and timed to move ONLY when stress levels have dropped to an acceptable level.

Secondly, automotive lubricants are priced by volume - you get to buy quarts and gallons of lube for what some people charge by the pint. Even Rem Oil runs $16 a QUART in comparable sizes. Others run MUCH higher - for something that will still get blown off the BCG. And no, it doesn't burn off - that bolt carrier doesn't get past 200 degrees - SLIP is WATER based, it's not BOILING off. Don't forget, you can dump a mag and bare hand disassemble the BCG in seconds and not get burned.

For those who chose not to use auto lubes because their sensibilities won't allow it, fine, but please stop repeating misinformation and outright dissimulation. BCG's aren't getting so hot the lube burns off, and auto lubes are forumulated to withstand much worse conditions than the simple stresses of a gun.

For cleaning, the best so far is non-chlorinated brake cleaner, it won't melt plastics, but it will strip almost any residue on the metal and leave it nearly contaminant free. It's specifically made to remove oil from drums and rotors to prevent brake fluid or lubricants adulterating brake pads and ruining them. For the price, it's the best value in a cleaner made, available at numerous locations in town, comes in a spray can with straw nozzle, and is made to do exactly what guns need.

Lubricant? Lots of options, some go with Mobil One, others industrial lubes, frankly, as one gun guru so aptly demonstrated, you can even use a feminine anti itch cream. For the price, not so much. In terms of needing to suspend lots of carbon residue, have sufficient boundary layer resilience, and still keep the price down, auto transmission fluid - ATF, like Dexron/Mercon, or the more expensive synthetic versions if you insist, does a great job. It's 60% detergents, is made to be used specifically in high pressure applicatons, and has extremely long anti oxidant qualities. For guns that are stored for years at a time between uses, there are better alternatives (like cosmoline,) those who plan to shoot it at least monthly do just fine using it.

Bore brushes and such, there is a school of thought that suggests using the next bullet in the mag for that. Removing every last iota of brass in a self loading repeater means only having the first shot in the rifle will ever travel an uncontaminated bore - and that bullet will leave residue in the microscopic roughness from button rifling. Further, if it's chromed or nitrided, there's already an anticorrosion layer over the carbon steel protecting it. The copper isn't the corroder, it's the residue, keep it flushed out and it won't. Much of the concern over copper is a '50's varmint rifle bare bore exercise, and had a lot to do with the simple powders and potential use of corrosive primers. Not so much today in a modern self loader with chromed bore. Military guns are 2MOA, the exercise of benchrest/varmint/precision practices is a low to no return for all the work. Just shoot it.

Don't get trapped in the mythology of "use only gun oil," it's largely marketing trying to sell simple lubricants for premium pricing in an high art package.

 

[Zach S]

I lube with breakfree CLP. Occasionally I clean with brake cleaner, and sometimes use a little compressed air... I have brushes, and a one piece cleaning rod, but normally go with a bore-snake instead.

I used to get my guns Military clean. Now, I dont worry about it. I have a few that have had over 5k through them with only lube.

Its not the carbon buildup you have to worry about, its the outside world getting into your firearm. If it ends up in the drink, mud, sand, etc, it gets cleaned ASAP. If not, it gets cleaned every now and then.

I also clean whatever is going to a gunsmith, the one I normally use hates cleaning guns as much as I do, and its no fun working on a filthy gun. I also pressure wash the engine bays and undercarriges of my cars on occasion for the same reason, I do my own wrenching.

 

[briansmithwins]

There are some good reasons shooters choose to use an automotive lubricant. First, the automotive engine works at much higher temperatures and stress levels than the few sliding surfaces in an AR.

Show me a firearm that's sealed like a IC engine and moves on bearings fed by an oil pump, and I'll agree that auto oil would be a good choice.

IC engines run hydrodynamic lubrication as their bearing are fed by a oil pump and the engine is turning at a fairly constant rate. IC engines are also much better sealed against dirt, moisture, and other environmental insults.

Firearms are intermittently loaded and run in boundary lubrication, where the only protection the metal has is from the EP additives. You want a gun oil that's creepy, to seep into all the little nooks and crannies, that's got a good anti-corrosion package, and that's got a good EP package.

All oils are not equal. Sure, some oils sold for guns are bulk engine oils repacked into little bottles and marked up 2500%. Is engine oil better than no oil, sure. Is it the best for every application, nope.

BSW

 

[FlyinBryan]

i switched from break free with teflon to mobil1 full synthetic years ago for our ar15's, and am very happy with the results. works just as good.

white tetra grease on m1's and 1911's

i have boresnakes for all calibers but dont use them much. i mostly use dewey or tipton coated rods, brass jags and brushes, bore and chamber, and cotton flanel patches.

hoppes#9 and sweets for cleaning.

little toothbrushes and pipe cleaners.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I have a Sinclair AR-15 Chamber Brush cleaner-tool that puts a Delran bushing in where the bolt assembly goes and pushes this round, cylindrical cloth thing into the area between the lugs and the chamber entrance, to clean all that grub out of there! Between that and dismantling the BCG each time to scrub each part down with a toothbrush and your favorite cleaner, it really does the job!

From: http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34907/Product/Sinclair_AR_15_and_AR_10_Lug_Recess_Tool#

Also, Check out: http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/05/12/ar-15-service-rifle-cleaning/

Get some special brushes, just made for different portions of the AR:

From: http://www.nextag.com/ar15-bolt-carrier-sale/shop-html

 

[benEzra]

1. Run patch soaked in something like Hoppe's #9 through bore for general gunk
2. Let sit
3. Bore Snake
4. Run dry patch through bore to remove hoppe's #9
5. Run patch soaked in something like Barnes CR-10 for copper fouling
6. Let sit
7. Bore Snake
8. Dry patch
9. Patch with an oil

I mean, would that be a good way to do it? Should I just use one cleaning product? If I'm using more than one, should I have separate boresnakes for each?

My AR cleaning regimen looks like this:

(1) Field strip.
(2) Fill bore with Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner and let sit 10 minutes or so.
(3) While bore is soaking, wipe dirty oil/residue off BCG and receiver with a rag or paper towels and quickly re-lube. (I like Mobil 1, but any good lubricant will do.)
(4) Bore snake.

Show me a firearm that's sealed like a IC engine and moves on bearings fed by an oil pump, and I'll agree that auto oil would be a good choice.

IC engines run hydrodynamic lubrication as their bearing are fed by a oil pump and the engine is turning at a fairly constant rate. IC engines are also much better sealed against dirt, moisture, and other environmental insults.

Most engine wear occurs during startup, when metal parts are resting against metal parts and oil pressure is zero. Engine oils are designed to protect engines from wear starting at zero psi, zero rpm, as well as at high rpm's.

I don't think very highly of conventional motor oils as a gun lubricant, but I'd challenge you to compare every physical characteristic of Mobil 1 or Royal Purple PAO-based synthetic lubricant to any gun oil, especially something like CLP or those composed of regular petroleum distillates. The only "gun oils" I see that are as good as synthetic PAO based oils are expensive specialty products like Slip2000 EWL and similar, and I see none that are significantly better. And I know what the additive pack of Mobil 1 looks like, whereas I don't even know whether Brand X gun oil has any ZZDP or other wear preventatives in the additive pack whatsoever.

Firearms are intermittently loaded and run in boundary lubrication, where the only protection the metal has is from the EP additives. You want a gun oil that's creepy, to seep into all the little nooks and crannies, that's got a good anti-corrosion package, and that's got a good EP package.

And in all of those respects, Mobil 1 and Royal Purple are as good as any gun oil, IMO. I wouldn't use them in the bore (too persistent) and don't like them on the outside of the gun (the film is thick enough to make handling very messy), but as an internal lubricant they are excellent.

For long-term corrosion protection (as for storage, or for wiping down the exterior of a corrosion-prone gun during the rain or humid weather), I'd use a dedicated corrosion preventive compound anyway (I like Boeshield, but a lot of people swear by CorrosionX).

 

[weirdsexy]

This thread has been excellent! Thank you all for your replies so far!

What about something as a rust/corrosion preventative or lubricant to use on the bore after cleaning? Hoppe's #9 says it leaves a "protective coating" in the bore after use. If I use that, is that ok or is there something else I should coat the bore with after cleaning? (I'm not talking about for leaving the gun unused for a period of years)

Also, does Hoppe's really smell as good as I see in all the reviews of it on various websites?

 

[FlyinBryan]

And in all of those respects, Mobil 1 and Royal Purple are as good as any gun oil, IMO. I wouldn't use them in the bore (too persistent) and don't like them on the outside of the gun (the film is thick enough to make handling very messy), but as an internal lubricant they are excellent.

i agree. i really push mobil one on my gun buddies (the ones i like) for applications like in an ar15.

i bought 1 quart of mobil 1, and a 99 cent needle tip oiler.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Also, does Hoppe's really smell as good as I see in all the reviews of it on various websites?

if im not mistaken they make a hoppes #9 car air freshener

i like it.

 

[briansmithwins]

Using the new oil analysis from here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127 puts the solid additives in Moble 1 or Royal Purple in the ~5000 ppm (.5%) range.

The MSDS for my gun oil of choice has calcium sulphonate listed at 1-2%. So that's 2x to 4x of that particular EP additive.

http://www.petroleumlogistics.co.nz/msds.aspx

You can believe that auto oils are better than purpose designed gun oils if you want to. It's a free country after all.

BSW

 

[weirdsexy]

Using the new oil analysis from here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478127#Post478127 puts the solid additives in Moble 1 or Royal Purple in the ~5000 ppm (.5%) range.

The MSDS for my gun oil of choice has calcium sulphonate listed at 1-2%. So that's 2x to 4x of that particular EP additive.

http://www.petroleumlogistics.co.nz/msds.aspx

You can believe that auto oils are better than purpose designed gun oils if you want to. It's a free country after all.

BSW

To be fair, I don't think anyone is suggesting that small engine oils are entirely better than purpose designed gun oils... just that they work fine for most shooters and are significantly more cost effective.

I plan on using mobil 1 and wheel bearing grease, I've been convinced by the multitude of people that have had great success with such products. I'm not a heavy shooter, match shooter or delta force operator.

 

[FlyinBryan]

You can believe that auto oils are better than purpose designed gun oils if you want to. It's a free country after all.

yours is the best.

 

[mc223]

calcium sulphonates are used in oils to neutralize strong acids, disperse harmful deposits and provide detergency and rust protection. It can also be used in greases. In most greases the thickener is responsible for carrying the oil to the point of lubrication. The oil is then squeezed out under the pressure of the contact and provides the necessary lubrication.

In the new greases calcium sulphonate is broken down and provides an increase in the lubricating film thickness. Calcium sulphonate platelets can bond horizontally to metal surfaces, forming a fish-scale-like coating. This provides ample shear planes which provide load carrying protection.

Hard to argue with them science types.

 

[mc223]

Even I have recommended ATF in the past. Think I'll be studying up a bit more.






ATF is the most complex of all lubricating fluids. Not only does it have to reduce friction to prevent wear like all lubricants, but it also has to allow a certain level of friction so the transmission's internal clutch materials can engage. Since most OEMs use proprietary frictional materials, virtually every ATF is OEM-specific. In some cases, they are transmission-specific. In addition, ATF's must be compatible with all transmission components, operate at both low and high temperature extremes, and maintain constant performance for extended periods.

To accomplish these complex tasks, ATF typically contains the following components:
Dispersants
Sludge & varnish control
Antioxidants
Prohibit oxidation
Antiwear
Planetary gear, bushing, thrust washer protection
Friction modifier
Modify clutch plate and band friction
Corrosion inhibitor
Prevent corrosion and rust
Seal swell agent
Prevent loss of fluid via seals
Viscosity Improver
Reduce rate of change of viscosity
Pour Point Depressant
Improve low temperature fluidity
Foam inhibitor
Foam control
Red dye



o

 

[TenMillimaster]

Maintenance? What Maintenance? The AR-15 is a "self-cleaning design" didn't you know? I wonder how anyone thought they could bill the Ar-15 as a self-cleaning design.

 

[mc223]

But then out of all of this come Grant Cunningham to explain why the surfaces of a firearm require a boundry lubricant like ATF.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

 

[madcratebuilder]

I love these "lubrication" threads. The science fiction is great. The one thing I don't get, we own multiple thousand dollar rifles, use ammo that cost up to a dollar or more a round and we snivel over a five dollar bottle of oil

 

[weirdsexy]

I love these "lubrication" threads. The science fiction is great. The one thing I don't get, we own multiple thousand dollar rifles, use ammo that cost up to a dollar or more a round and we snivel over a five dollar bottle of oil

Yeah, or like people that build expensive rifles and then feed them exclusively with $.20/round russian ammo. ... not that I would ever do that ... exclusively.

Still, the thing about oil, etc is that it's a recurring cost. Even if it's a seldoom recurring cost, the psychological effect is still there. Also, I'm a college kid with not unlimited funds... all these extra little costs are killing me after I saved up to build my rifle.

 

[benEzra]

The MSDS for my gun oil of choice has calcium sulphonate listed at 1-2%. So that's 2x to 4x of that particular EP additive.

http://www.petroleumlogistics.co.nz/msds.aspx

You post a link to Aeroshell aircraft lubricants as an argument that traditional "gun oils" are superior to non-gun-marketed lubricants?

If that is indeed what you use, I agree that Aeroshell lubricants are absolutely top-notch (and FWIW I'm a technical writer in the aviation industry, so I'm passably familiar with them). I'm sure they are as good as or better than Mobil 1 in most respects, though it would be harder for most people to find them locally.

I also believe that Aeroshell/Lubriplate/Mobil 1/Royal Purple are as good as the best mass-market gun oils and greases on the market, and certainly better than the gun oils you'll find at Walmart.

 

[briansmithwins]

You post a link to Aeroshell aircraft lubricants as an argument that traditional "gun oils" are superior to non-gun-marketed lubricants?

If that is indeed what you use, I agree that Aeroshell lubricants are absolutely top-notch (and FWIW I'm a technical writer in the aviation industry, so I'm passably familiar with them). I'm sure they are as good as or better than Mobil 1 in most respects, though it would be harder for most people to find them locally.

Aeroshell 18 is a 'gun oil'. No claims for magical abilities, mineral oil based, no fancy name, I'd say that makes it a 'traditional gun oil'. Says it's intended use is for 'the lubrication and corrosion protection of small arms' right on the tech sheet: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TMtMzZkMDZkYzU0Zjlm&hl=en_US&authkey=CL_jzeAD

As far as hard to find, if people are reading this, they can get it here: http://www.shellaviationstore.com/o...ype=AF&bus_unit=&doc=&bus_desc=&show=asp_menu

Wasn't that difficult?

It's not like we don't have to order other stuff online because local gun stores stock crap. Even with shipping the AS 18 comes out cheaper than the Mobile 1 or Royal Purple I was finding online.

BSW

 

[Motega]

Hi, I have tried most of what's out there and I now use BoreTech for everything... except just a general purpose oil, I still use G96 because the smell reminds me of deer camp : )

 

[benEzra]

It appears that Aeroshell Fluid 18 is marketed as both a general purpose aircraft lubricant and a weapons lubricant. It appears to be made to comply with MIL-PRF-32033, Lubricating Oil, General Purpose, Preservative (Water-Displacing, Low Temperature).

Here is one data sheet from Shell:

http://www-static.shell.com/static/..._and_specialities/AeroShell Fluid 18_MSDS.PDF

And looking at that, while the additive pack looks pretty good (except for no ZDDP? does calcium sulfonate completely cover the anti-galling function?) the physical qualities seem on the thin side for firearms use in hot weather, IMO. Viscosity is only ~14 cSt at 40 degrees Celsius (104 deg F) per BITOG, whereas Mobil 1 5W30 is >60 cSt at 40 deg C and is still 11.3 cSt at 100 deg C.

Here are the lubrication properties for Mobil 1 5W-30 PAO based lubricant (my own personal preference):

Pour Point (P/P): -65.2 F
Flash Point (F/P): +446.0 F
Viscosity at 100 F (V/100): 64.8 cSt
Viscosity at 212 F (V/212): 11.3 cSt
TOR: 511.2 F
Viscosity Index: 171

which is pretty darn good by any measure. They are very close to those of Slip2000, as I recall, and M1 is a lot cheaper.

I suspect that as a corrosion preventive, Aeroshell Fluid 18 is better than M1 (since MIL-PRF-32033 is, among other things, a preservative spec), and as a cold-weather lubricant it probably allows function at lower subzero temps than M1 5W30. But here in the eastern-NC climate, I don't see it as better than M1 for my own needs, anyway.

It's not like we don't have to order other stuff online because local gun stores stock crap. Even with shipping the AS 18 comes out cheaper than the Mobile 1 or Royal Purple I was finding online.

I use Mobil 1 5W30 for my car, so picking up an extra quart at Advance Auto isn't an inconvenience. It's $5 to $7 a quart, I think, which will probably last me about a decade.

 

[weirdsexy]

I bought a $2.50 bottle of hoppe's gun oil to use on my bore after cleaning. Any suggestions for something else to buy (just for the bore) when I run out?

Like I said earlier, going to be using automotive stuff on the rest of the gun. It was suggested that using such products to coat the bore after cleaning was less than ideal.

 

[benEzra]

Pretty much any "gun oil" that's not too thick will work for the bore, since the only purpose is to protect from corrosion rather than to lubricate. I usually just use Rem Oil (it's cheap and spreads very thin), unless the gun is going to be stored a long time. A lot of bore cleaners will also coat the bore well enough to protect from corrosion for a while.