AR-15 MPI/HP bolts

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Knightsofnee

member
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
25
As the owner of an AR-15, I'm told I need a few spare parts, mainly an assembled bolt. So far Stag is the only place I can find one, plus it's reasonably priced. Question is: Why? Do they have a bad history with their bolts? I'm not trying to sell anything, I own a Windham which has been terrific, but their bolts aren't MPI/HP, which I'm told is what to get. Anybody have any Stag experience?
 
The reason you can find a Stag is that Stag is the consumer division of CMT - Continental Machine & Tool. CMT is one of the largest suppliers of parts to much of the rest of the AR industry. Their HPT/MPI bolt carrier groups are just fine.
 
Well you don't have to buy a HP/MP, shot peened, Carpenter 158 steel bolt but if you're buying a spare, why not. Especially considering how important the bolt is.

I'd slow down right now, you say your current BCG is doing the job so why not wait a little until demand and price slack off and supply goes up. For a top notch BCG or bolt it's hard to beat BCM. You won't be disappointed if you wait a little to get one.

Stag/CMT is good and they do sell HP/MP bolts, at least in Stag's milspec Plus Package upgrade to their complete ARs. I don't know if they sell the bolt separately but CMT should.
 
You shoul be able to get 10,000 rounds out of a bcg.
Maybe buy some rings, pin , extractor with springs and retainer clip
 
I have never understood the "spare bolt" fetish amongst some AR-15 folks.

I get that if you have a duty weapon, and the bolt had a lug or two break, that it would be prudent to have a spare so you could get your rifle working again in very short order. Your life may actually depend on it.

But for the rest of the sport and recreational shooters (the other 95% of AR-15 owners), I just don't see broken bolts occurring with such frequency that would necessitate having a spare on hand.
 
I've fired thousands of rounds through my ARs, with NO broken parts of any kind. However, I did see a post for a bolt carrier group with all the OP's requirements @ 127 from Anderson Machine.
 
some "sport and recreational shooters" treat their guns like duty/defense guns. they are training junkies or competitors and put more rounds downrange than 95% of the 'professionals'. plus their training and competitions are harder on the guns and they see more parts break.

most everybody else is just trying to imitate or be part of that crowd.

but seriously, when you're sending 5000-10000 rounds downrange per year, a $65 bolt is a pretty insignificant cost. Especially when you are spending $400 for a class, plus 1500 rounds of ammo, plus hotel and gas and 3 days of vacation. to lose out on the instruction or training time because you don't have a spare part is pretty poor planning.

i guess it's just a matter of perspective though
 
Hacker15E said:
I have never understood the "spare bolt" fetish amongst some AR-15 folks.

I get that if you have a duty weapon, and the bolt had a lug or two break, that it would be prudent to have a spare so you could get your rifle working again in very short order. Your life may actually depend on it.

But for the rest of the sport and recreational shooters (the other 95% of AR-15 owners), I just don't see broken bolts occurring with such frequency that would necessitate having a spare on hand.
Click to expand...

Here is why I have a fetish regarding spare bolts.

The bolt is the most vital part of the system that is likely to break either from continued use or bad ammo. I'd rather have a couple extra bolts on hand to keep my rifles running during a time of panic. You just never know when the cost of a BCG is going to rise up to $400 like it was a few months ago. I'd rather not over pay for something in a time of panic.

I don't think it's nessesary to keep extra carrier groups sitting around but having an extra bolt, gas rings and firing pin is something most should have extras of especially if you run your rifles in carbine classes or think you'll ever need to depend on your AR in a time of panic.

That being said. I only buy BCG's from reputable companies. There are to many fly by night manufacturers churning out crappy BCG's with bolts made of 8620 rather than C-158 or 9310. These companies also don't do proper high pressure testing that reveal fatal flaws. The gas key screws they're using aren't type 8 hardened and the staking job on them is horrendous.

I've seen to many BCG failures with a lot of them happening in the recent months. Hell, at the Carbine Class I took last month, one of the other students had 2 lugs sheer clean off the bolt. Upon further examination, it was a crappy no name BCG that just looked horrible. He said he bought it off gun broker 3 months ago for $260 and only put about 500 rounds through it.

To the OP... I'd recommend buying your next BCG from a reputable company such as BCM, DD, Colt or even Spikes. Stay away from the recent batches PSA has been getting. The bolts are made of 8620 and the gas key fasteners are made in Taiwan.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
I have never understood the "spare bolt" fetish amongst some AR-15 folks.

I get that if you have a duty weapon, and the bolt had a lug or two break, that it would be prudent to have a spare so you could get your rifle working again in very short order. Your life may actually depend on it.

But for the rest of the sport and recreational shooters (the other 95% of AR-15 owners), I just don't see broken bolts occurring with such frequency that would necessitate having a spare on hand.
Click to expand...

If I have a spare bolt handy when I'm at a match a broken bolt means I DNF a stage, not the entire match. Likewise if I'm at a rifle class.

Thousands of rounds isn't that many. I do about 1k a year, spread among several rifles. If you haven't broken a AR bolt yet the operative word is yet.

BSW
 
I recently gave my younger son an AR. It has a spare bolt and extractor in the grip. He probably hasn't even figured it out yet. He may never need them, but they are there if he does.
 
heh well they won't do him much good if he doesn't know they're there!
 
monotonous_iterancy said:
Even if it says "mil-spec"?
Click to expand...

Yes, even if it says Mil-Spec. 8620 steel was the old military specification for the material used to manufacture the bolt. The specification was changed to Carpenter 158 years ago. I want to say it was changed sometime in the 80's. They changed it due to multiple bolt failures usually due to the bolt face cracking or lugs shearing off. C-158 is still the Mil-Spec however some manufacturers started using 9310 steel which in testing shows to be less brittle than C-158 providing the treating process. 9310 needs to be heat treated properly in order for it to be harder than C-158.

I don't know what PSA is selling or how they're advertising their BCG's since I have no interest in one's they sell. If they are in fact advertising a BCG using a bolt constructed of 8620 as "Mil-spec", I would call them out on it. Email them and ask them why they are falsely advertising. Ask them to show you the current Mil-Spec outlining the M16's bolt construction. This wouldn't be the first time PSA falsely advertised. About 1-2 months ago they had a batch of BCG's they were selling. They were advertising them to be (100% made in the USA). Funny thing was, all it took was one BCG to get into the hands of someone who knew what they were looking at. PSA probably sold 100's of these BCG's to unknowing customers just looking to shoot dirt and cans 1 weekend every other month. It took one person who knew something wasn't right and at that point you know it's going to be plastered all over the forums. The BCG's PSA was advertising to be made in the USA were using gas key fasteners that had 3 letters on them (YFS) which means they were manufactured by
Fang Sheng Screw Co., Ltd (YFS)

The gas key fasteners should be grade 8 hardened and being how lenient the guidelines over seas are, I don't know how much I could trust them being the correct spec. I have seen the fasteners sheer off but most of all, I've seen them come loose due to some shoddy staking.



(****News Flash to PSA****)
You would never find BCM or Daniel Defense pull some crap like this. This is why they have the reputation that they do. They built both of their empires through quality parts, and good customer service. Just put it all together. You have BCM who can't keep BCG'S on the shelf for longer than a day yet other companies have had them for weeks? BCM could have easily acquired 8620 bolts from another manufacturer but they didn't. There was a shortage of C-158 and BCM wasn't going to stoop down to make a quick buck. People know they will get nothing but a top notch BCG made with the correct parts and tested to the highest standards if they buy from one of these companies. Not just batch tested bit individually tested. All of the reasons and examples I have given above are the very same reasons people have no problem spending $250 on a BCM BCG on gun broker. They could have easily saved themselves $100 and bought the one on PSA right now or one of the ones on Joe Bob's.

It's cheaper to buy quality once than crap twice. Buy once..... Cry once!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
I see. I didn't know that. I did see PSA has a sale on lower parts with an "m16 bolt" thrown in. It claims to have 158 carpenter and grade 8 staking, all the stuff you mentioned. Should one not believe them?
 
They sell more than one grade of bolt and BCG. We could argue all day about brand A vs brand B, but I will agree BCM has a great rep, and I really like mine, but my PSA has been very good as well. Only time will tell how they hold up. It kind of goes back the the OPs question about keeping spare parts.
 
Walkalong said:
They sell more than one grade of bolt and BCG. We could argue all day about brand A vs brand B, but I will agree BCM has a great rep, and I really like mine, but my PSA has been very good as well. Only time will tell how they hold up. It kind of goes back the the OPs question about keeping spare parts.
Click to expand...

Yes, PSA sells multiple BCG's from different manufacturers. The PSA branded bolts have been fine. It's the BCG's that aren't branded they are selling. Bottom line. PSA is responsible for what they sell. They need to do a little more research and label their parts accordingly. Specifically the non branded BCG's they are now selling.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
ObsceneJesster said:
Yes, PSA sells multiple BCG's from different manufacturers. The PSA branded bolts have been fine. It's the BCG's that aren't branded they are selling. Bottom line. PSA is responsible for what they sell. They need to do a little more research and label their parts accordingly. Specifically the non branded BCG's they are now selling...
Click to expand...

Yes, PSA lists 5 different 5.56 BCGs and even THEY have trouble keeping them straight! One is Daniel Defense, rarely in stock. Then there's the 8620 BCG, M16 BCG, MPI M16 BCG and their own premium BCG with PSA logo and HPT/MPI bolt.

PSA has said the reason they carry BCGs from various sources is due to serious shortages over the last year. People buy a PSA upper but can't get the BCG, so have been glad to get anything.

A couple months ago I ordered the MPI M16 BCG but got the non-MPI version, so had to exchange it. A few weeks ago when their premium BCG finally came back in stock I ordered one but got the 8620 bolt! Complained, then got the non-MPI M16. I'm now waiting on a return shipment label to return both of them and of course the premium BCG that I should have received.

I would avoid their 8620 BCG and the M16 BCG. The MPI M16 is pretty good, it has a very, very nicely finished carrier but YFS grade 8 gas key bolts are used. Its bolt is MP tested but not HPT. Their premium logo BCG should be their best.

I don't mean this to be a complaint, I love PSA. I picture overworked staff rushing to get orders out and grabbing from the wrong bin or something. I hope they get this straightened out because it's costing them money and inconveniencing customers.
 
PSA staff is only overworked because they are under staffed..this has beea problem with them for a while...eventually people will stop buying from them. They are an absolute last resort for me.
 
PSA staff is only overworked because they are under staffed..this has beea problem with them for a while...eventually people will stop buying from them. They are an absolute last resort for me.
Click to expand...

PSA is a relatively new company that is suffering growing pains. I can kind of understand why they haven't staffed up to meet demand. Who knows if this level of demand will continue for the foreseeable future? I'd hate to be in the position of hiring a whole slew of workers and over-expanding, just to potentially turn around and fire them all in a few months' time.
 
Fishbed77 said:
PSA is a relatively new company that is suffering growing pains. I can kind of understand why they haven't staffed up to meet demand. Who knows if this level of demand will continue for the foreseeable future? I'd hate to be in the position of hiring a whole slew of workers and over-expanding, just to potentially turn around and fire them all in a few months' time.
Click to expand...

After the awful customer serviced experience I had with PSA, ill never buy from them again. Luckily I got my money back, my advice is stick with the manufacturers who we already know sell quality items.
 
No doubt PSA needs more people and problems on the website and in the warehouse need to be solved. For example, the 8620 bolt doesn't have a SKU listed and the cardboard tube it's packed in isn't marked. If each BCG was clearly marked I think I would have got the right one in the first place.

Anyway I expect them emerge from this tremendously high sales period a better company. At least I hope so because I love their deals!
 
Hacker15E said:
I have never understood the "spare bolt" fetish amongst some AR-15 folks.

I get that if you have a duty weapon, and the bolt had a lug or two break, that it would be prudent to have a spare so you could get your rifle working again in very short order. Your life may actually depend on it.

But for the rest of the sport and recreational shooters (the other 95% of AR-15 owners), I just don't see broken bolts occurring with such frequency that would necessitate having a spare on hand.
Click to expand...

I rely on my "AR15" for defense as well.
 
PSA is responsible for what they sell. They need to do a little more research and label their parts accordingly. Specifically the non branded BCG's they are now selling.
Click to expand...
Yes, I would like to see them do this as well.
 
make sure if you get a bolt every molecue is x rayed microscopically inspected atomized steel made by master samauri swordmaker. ejector made from specially selected hardened steel extractor finely honed and polished by a master jeweler before purchase then you will be set. this is the only rifle ever made that requires this. I wonder what the guys who make AKs in mud huts think of that
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
  • Poll
Which AR brand?
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
4K
mljdeckard
mljdeckard
M1key
  • Locked
AR-15 7.62X39 MPI Bolt By Tactical Ambush
Replies
10
Views
2K
M1key
M1key
H
  • Locked
Decent Labor Day Sale for MPI Bolt for your AR
Replies
1
Views
283
Walkalong
Walkalong
S
  • Locked
ar15 bcg's
Replies
6
Views
479
Bartholomew Roberts
B
4
  • Locked
ar-15 bolt hold back not reliable
Replies
5
Views
727
41magsnub
4
Back
Top