AR-15 Pistol Help

[UpInSmoke]

Okay , heres the deal.

Ive done alot of research and ive seen so many conflicting reports that im not sure whats true. So id figure that i would ask the friendly people at THR.

I have an new AR-15 lower that I got from a friend , i think he bought it about 2 months ago. I was wanting to build an ar-15 pistol but some people have told me that I cant unless the reciever is marked "Pistol". But I have also been told by several other people and a gun salesman at a local store that if he bought the lower after August 2008 that the lower would be declared a "Lower" and not as a rifle or as a pistol and that I would be free to make a build of my choice.

Now for another question.Not that im planning on putting a foregrip on it but i did have some questions about it also. What's the deal on them? I was told by some people that it was a "no, no" and some people have said that a detachable foregrip would be fine, they just dont allow "pistol grips" to be attatched to the front of the gun.

So..... what is the truth? Thanks.

 

[kwelz]

The legality of the lower depends on your state and how it was recorded on the Yellow form.

As for a Forward grip, this is a big NoNo. Don't do it, don't think about it.

 

[UpInSmoke]

I wasnt planning on the foregrip , one wont even fit on the upper I wanted anyways.

Would there be anyway i could look up to see how he registered it?

 

[Zerodefect]

There's got to be a way to look it up. It deosn't have to say pistol on the lower, maybe in some states but I haven't been to those. It matters how it was written up when sold, I think. If it was sold as a pistol then your good to go. I'd imagine whoever keeps track of such things should be able to run the serial # and tell if its a rifle or pistol.

Keep in mind: You better not have any other parts needed to build your pistol yet! If you have a short upper or barrel around, anywhere, then if that lower is a rifle you have parts on hand to build an SBR! Thats big trouble. Having enough parts around to build an SBR without a SBR license is "attempting to build an SBR blah blah blah" or something, you get the point.

Also if you have an Ar15 stock around and also have a Ar pistol lower around then you better have an AR rifle around missing its stock! Or once again your guilty of having parts on hand to build an Illeagal SBR.

Silly isn't it.......oh scary short barrels

 

[UpInSmoke]

But is it true that it can be registered as just a "lower" by the dealer on the form? I havent seen a form in a while but if thats the case then i know i will be in the clear.

 

[Zach S]

IANAL.

I think as far as fed goes, you can build it into a pistol as long as it has never had a stock attached. I think the "pistol only" engravings are just a CYA move by the manufacturers. When they started doing that, I wanted to get one and form 1 it. Then have a line engraved through "pistol only" with "Form 1 SBR" engraved under it.

IIRC, all of mine have been recorded as a "lower," instead of a rifle, so in that respect I'm GTG. But most of them had a stock installed within a few minutes of being home, so in that respect I'm SOL.

 

[nalioth]

and how it was recorded on the Yellow form.

This is incorrect.

So long as the receiver has never been built as a working firearm (a "virgin receiver"), it can be built into any legal firearm, no matter what is marked on the 4473.

"Pistol" markings are just another "CYA" with some people (and a huge moneymaker for some manufacturers who prey on the ignorant). These markings are not legally required by Federal law (your state and local laws may say differently).

 

[Quiet]

The ATF 4473 form notates a firearm as either a "handgun", "long gun" or "other".

A "never been built upon" stripped AR lower reciever is a "other" firearm.

You can build it into either a "handgun" or a "long gun" after you complete your transaction.

If the 4473 is marked either "handgun" or "other", under Federal law you can build it into a pistol.

If the 4473 is marked "long gun", under Federal law you can not build it into a pistol, unless you get BATFE approval to make a SBR.

 

[UpInSmoke]

Any way to verify what it was recorded as?

 

[kanook]

have your friend look at his receipt and see what is written or have your friend contact the shop that sold it and see how it was sold

 

[freakshow10mm]

A 4473 does not change the condition of the weapon. It is for recording the information that is contained in the log book. A receiver or frame is simply a receiver or frame. The designation is up to the owner to decide. If a receiver is logged in as a receiver and 4473'd as a long gun or pistol, that FFL better damn well be an 07 FFL as that indicates an act of manufacturing has taken place. Also the weapon should be logged in the manufacturing log book as well.

TC Arms v US concluded that possession of the parts to make a SBR is NOT a SBR because according to the law it needs to be MADE, ie completed. An aggregation of parts is not illegal unless you are talking suppressors or machine guns, because those specifically state "parts" or "devices" in the statute. SBR, SBS, AOW do not. TC Arms v US spells it out. Constructive possession does not apply to SBR even though the ATF thinks it does. TC Arms v US shot down that argument and it's in federal caselaw.

 

[UpInSmoke]

That sounds like what I will have to do , kanook.

 

[MrCleanOK]

UpInSmoke,

**I'm not a lawyer, or NFA expert. This is just my understand of the law, developed when I was cruising the internet interested in building an AR pistol (which I never did).

Regarding the forward vertical grip, you must register your pistol as an Any Other Weapon (AOW) with the ATF if you want to do this. For you to put on the grip yourself, I believe it would be a $200 stamp to "manufacture" it. You could also have a manufacturer with the right NFA credentials manufacture it for you, then transfer it to you with a $5 stamp.

Doing it without going through the proper channels is a big, huge no-no. I don't really see a point to it anyway, as the front of the mag well makes a pretty good place for your support hand in the first place.

 

[freakshow10mm]

If you want to put a VFG on a pistol, I'm a Class 2 SOT and charge $75 plus shipping. I make it on a Form 2, then transfer to you on a Form 4. Tax is included ($5).