I would like to attach a 12 ga shotgun to my Bushmaster AR-15...I've seen pictures of a setup like this....is it a civilian legal modification? Can it be done fairly easily? Would I need a specific stock or any modifications to the rifle itself to handle the recoil of a shotgun?
AR-15 + underslung shotgun
- Thread starter Cultof10
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highorder
Member
Boy it's a heavy modification.
Here's some previous discussion:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=224321
Here's some previous discussion:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=224321
Zerodefect
member
Not legal me thinks? Too short? Would need an AOW tax stamp?
Zerodefect
member
What would be the point anyway?
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
It'd be the perfect in-home weapon, allowing you to breach the doors in your house with impunity.
nalioth
Member
This mod is quite legal - so long as you leave the 18" barrel in place on the shotgun.
praharin
Member
It's quite legal even if you decide to shorten the barrel to whatever length you wish. However, you would need to get permission by the Fed Gov, due to the NFA. I don't know for sure, but I believe it can be an AOW. However, for manufacturing purposes, the tax is the same $200 for AOW or SBS. Might as well go with the SBS because you can then attach a stock and 14" barrel and have a real, compact shotgun.
It's a reasonably useful attachment, for urban military operations. If you expect it to be practical or comfortable to shoot, you might be disappointed.
FWIW, you could try to find a real M203 40mm grenade launcher, and spend the tax on the High explosive rounds. Each one is the cost of the round + $200 to register it as a destructive device.
much more fun than a 12 gauge though.
It's a reasonably useful attachment, for urban military operations. If you expect it to be practical or comfortable to shoot, you might be disappointed.
FWIW, you could try to find a real M203 40mm grenade launcher, and spend the tax on the High explosive rounds. Each one is the cost of the round + $200 to register it as a destructive device.
much more fun than a 12 gauge though.
mljdeckard
Member
Silly mall ninja idea? Yes.
BUT:
There are a couple of peripheral uses I could see for it. When I shoot coyotes, I keep a shotgun in case a close-in shot pops up. IF I had a shotgun bolted to the rifle, it would certainly make the transition easier. I also shoot a LOT of jackrabbits, and I transition between rifle and shotgun frequently. If I had a dedicated .22 upper with a shotgun bolted underneath, it would make that easier as well. For both of these uses, I would want probably at least a 24" barrel, and it would certainly be a front-heavy proposition.
As far as how you do it, it's easier now than ever. Picatinney rail under the rifle, rail on top of the receiver of the shotgun, perhaps fabricate a bracket to connect the barrels around the bayonet lug. The ones I have seen also has the rear of the shotgun receiver squared off to match closer to the magazine of the rifle. I COULD do that myself, but I would probably have a smith do it. Basically, I would look in the pawn shops for an old 870 I wouldn't mind butchering.
BUT:
There are a couple of peripheral uses I could see for it. When I shoot coyotes, I keep a shotgun in case a close-in shot pops up. IF I had a shotgun bolted to the rifle, it would certainly make the transition easier. I also shoot a LOT of jackrabbits, and I transition between rifle and shotgun frequently. If I had a dedicated .22 upper with a shotgun bolted underneath, it would make that easier as well. For both of these uses, I would want probably at least a 24" barrel, and it would certainly be a front-heavy proposition.
As far as how you do it, it's easier now than ever. Picatinney rail under the rifle, rail on top of the receiver of the shotgun, perhaps fabricate a bracket to connect the barrels around the bayonet lug. The ones I have seen also has the rear of the shotgun receiver squared off to match closer to the magazine of the rifle. I COULD do that myself, but I would probably have a smith do it. Basically, I would look in the pawn shops for an old 870 I wouldn't mind butchering.
possum
Member
18" or more barrel lenght and you are good. less than that and you need the tax stamp, howver it is only $5 so you aren't out of too much either way.
Roo
Member
I'd suggest you drop the idea, it sounds like a waste of time, money and practicality. If you are still super keen, there is a company called SAM Inc that made purpose built .308/12ga combination semi's in the past. I'm not even sure if the company is still in business, as I suspect their products were a little on the average side. I'd advocate just buying a normal shotgun anyway.
nalioth
Member
You guys are not thinking.
If it has a stock and a short barrel, it's an SBS.
It'll have a stock, ladies and gentlemen (albeit indirectly attached).
If it has a stock and a short barrel, it's an SBS.
It'll have a stock, ladies and gentlemen (albeit indirectly attached).
mrnkc130
Member
https://www.autoweapons.com/products/sbr.html#MCS Q/D MOUNTING
about half way down the page...there are several systems by knights.
I beleive you would need to build the actual shotgun as an SBS on a form 1 oer NFA.
about half way down the page...there are several systems by knights.
I beleive you would need to build the actual shotgun as an SBS on a form 1 oer NFA.
Zerodefect
member
The shotgun would be nearly useless. Besides for every round I can fire with a shotgun I can get 3 aimed shots off from my AR.
Plus the weight of the shotty attachment renders the AR useless as well. A slow moving target is a dead target. And that much weight on a AR makes it really hard to move around cover and shoot.
Best bet. Put a Sectorgear single point sling on your AR. Then put a 2 point sling on your shotgun and sling it on your back.
Plus the weight of the shotty attachment renders the AR useless as well. A slow moving target is a dead target. And that much weight on a AR makes it really hard to move around cover and shoot.
Best bet. Put a Sectorgear single point sling on your AR. Then put a 2 point sling on your shotgun and sling it on your back.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
For what it's worth, no, an AR15 with an underslung shotgun is an incredibly impractical weapon.
Much better to simply stick with a proper rifle and a proper shotgun with a stock, and learn how to use those.
Much better to simply stick with a proper rifle and a proper shotgun with a stock, and learn how to use those.
Gunnerpalace
Member
It can be done, the Masterkey itself is going to be a NFA item,
For all the genius's proclaiming it's unpractical the military uses it in Spec ops roles, if the OP wants one to want one I don't see that as being a crime,
He would have gotten more resourceful answers at Arfcom,
AcceptableUserName
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it's not a crime. it's just useless for him. its a waste of money, and for someone NOT to mention that to him, they're doing him as well as the integrity of the board a disservice. i don't know about you guys, but i come here for good advice. i called him a mall ninja in jest ; maybe he really is just an arms afficionado and thinks it would be cool to own, and more power to him. but i think the ebst advice is to buy a good shotgun and a good ar and practice extensively with and enjoy both. if he ever used it in the practicality it was designed for, i.e. "breaching" doors, he'd be practicing ninja moves in a jail cell, face it.
AcceptableUserName
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and as far as him getting more "resourceful" answers, i don't know about that. FWIW, I don't think there's even a SWAT Team/task force/LE unit in america that uses a masterkey system. To my admittedly limited knowledge that's a very specialized military employment and the guy carrying it probably despises it, I'd bet.
To the original poster, if you really want to follow through with this absurd idea, you will need to keep the gun to Federal length guidelines which OAL is I believe, don't quote me, 28" and barrel length 18" on the shotgun. If you wanted to go shorter, you'd need to go through the NFA/AOW route. I think SBS would be useless because the gun will not have a stock of any kind. If you don't do the paperwork, It will protrude beyond the barrel exactly like the photo posted.
To the original poster, if you really want to follow through with this absurd idea, you will need to keep the gun to Federal length guidelines which OAL is I believe, don't quote me, 28" and barrel length 18" on the shotgun. If you wanted to go shorter, you'd need to go through the NFA/AOW route. I think SBS would be useless because the gun will not have a stock of any kind. If you don't do the paperwork, It will protrude beyond the barrel exactly like the photo posted.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Y'all play nice.
Cultof10, I promise you if you put together such a beast, you won't be happy with it. There were a couple of carbines with cut-down 870s hung under them in the arms room of the place I used to work on Ft. Bragg. Most muzzle heavy, ungainly, miserable cobble jobs I've ever seen. The shotguns were used for breaching, though- not fighting.
But as long as you observe the relevant legalities, there's no reason you can't do it if you want to...
fwiw,
lpl
Cultof10, I promise you if you put together such a beast, you won't be happy with it. There were a couple of carbines with cut-down 870s hung under them in the arms room of the place I used to work on Ft. Bragg. Most muzzle heavy, ungainly, miserable cobble jobs I've ever seen. The shotguns were used for breaching, though- not fighting.
But as long as you observe the relevant legalities, there's no reason you can't do it if you want to...
fwiw,
lpl
HoosierQ
Member
Hey Cultof10. Don't be offended. Everybody who accessories their gun to any significant degree runs the risk of being called a Mall Ninja. It is meant in fun. Nobody is dissing you...not really.
In fact, there are quite a few threads on this subject (attaching a shotgun like the grenade launcher)here at THR.
Actually there is a hilarious blog by somebody out there called Gecko45 who, IIRC, may actually have caused the whole Mall Ninja term to be coined. You gotta read this thing. Speculation abounds as to whether this guy actually believes this stuff or if he is writing a parody. This thing is a hoot...unless he really believes it then it is kinda disturbing...but it is a hoot regardless.
http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
So you are the bazzillionth guy to be labeled a mall ninja for wanting to push the envelope on accessorizations.
In fact, there are quite a few threads on this subject (attaching a shotgun like the grenade launcher)here at THR.
Actually there is a hilarious blog by somebody out there called Gecko45 who, IIRC, may actually have caused the whole Mall Ninja term to be coined. You gotta read this thing. Speculation abounds as to whether this guy actually believes this stuff or if he is writing a parody. This thing is a hoot...unless he really believes it then it is kinda disturbing...but it is a hoot regardless.
http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
So you are the bazzillionth guy to be labeled a mall ninja for wanting to push the envelope on accessorizations.
Looking at the "assault shotrifle" from a fresh perspective, why not explore hanging a flat topped AR pistol from the forearm of a semi-auto Mossberg 930 SPX and using the AR pistol's handle like a vertical foregrip with a nearby trigger?
Unique. Perhaps no tax stamp required. Would definitely be a picture worthy thread. Be sure to use a laser sight.
Unique. Perhaps no tax stamp required. Would definitely be a picture worthy thread.
Be sure to use a laser sight.hirundo82
Member
I don't know about that. Any attachment sturdy enough to hold an AR pistol to the shotgun could be construed as attaching a buttstock to the pistol (at least according to ATF logic), requiring a SBR stamp.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Good point - though I like Boats's idea, it would probably need the $200 stamp (and have a castrated rifle barrel length), whereas the original shotgun under rifle idea requires only a $5 AOW stamp, and a shotgun barrel is not as hamstrung with a short bbl length.
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