AR-15 Variant Pistols?

[30 cal slob]

I really hate to be a pest, but I have to ask you guys ...

I've been seeing an increasing number of ar-15-type handguns in my local stores (chambered in .223, of course).

Now, I can sorta see the fun novelty in adding one to my collection of ar-15 type long guns. Hell, in my state, you can carry them concealed (!) if you want, although in the dog days of July and August, that wouldn't be the most comforatble thing to do. A few guys I know head to the local indoor pistol range and shoot them with frangible ammo. Fun fun fun.

My question is - what would the proper technique to hold these weapons be?

With a fully-loaded 30 round mag packed into one of these babies, I dunno how long I'd be able to be locked into an isoceles stance w/o me arms getting tired.

Anyone make specialty slings for these things? Would be fun to run around with one under my trench coat.

Thanks ...

 

[MrAcheson]

Holding them, well you could hold it like a pistol or perhaps grip it by the magazine or magazine well.

Do not, under any circumstances, put any sort of foregrip on it. You will have made a completely illegal short barreled rifle. Same with a buttstock. I'm not sure what would happen if you put a standard upper on the AR pistol receiver. I'm betting that is bad mojo too.

Oh and if the BATFE wanted to screw with you, all they would have to do is point out that you have the potential to do one of these things using AR parts you already own.

You could probably modify a one point sling to carry it under a coat, but why?

 

[Coronach]

They really are a novelty item. Fun, perhaps (I've never fired one), but of limited practical application. Not that there is anything wrong with "fun" guns- Lord knows most of my collection falls into the "want it" as opposed to "need it" category. They just seem to be a lot of money and trouble for what is, effectively, a short barreled rifle with no stock...so you can't shoot it will as a pistol (due to weight/balance) and you can't shoot it at all as a rifle (due to legal considerations). Add in the potential legal pitfalls (the thing crosses so many different, sometimes conflicting, legal definitions), and the cost and it really seems like not enough fun, to me.

Mike

 

[GaryM]

Right hand on the grip, left hand on the front of the mag well. That is what works best for me.

 

[Rob1035]

From my understanding, they aren't that expensive if you build it yourself. Also, the legality seems fairly straight-forward, dont add a fore-grip that isn't parallel with the barrel, dont add a stock, and dont add a barrel that is 16" or longer...
I may be wrong though, this is just what I gathered from a 30+ page thread on ARFCOM about them.

As for practicality, they would be better than a pistol for when a rifle would be cumbersome, like in a car or something I guess.

 

[Magnuumpwr]

Necessity is the mother of all inventions! If you have an old nylon sling and the screws with nuts for slings then you can make your own sling just like I did for my P21S pistol. I made this sling so that it keeps the gun with the barrel midway on my belt line and also serves as a resistance while shooting. By resistance, I mean that you can use the two hand style of shooting to keep from having to hold it as you would normally try to a standard pistol. Hope this is of some help to you.

 

[RyanM]

Aren't pistols permitted to have foregrips which are perpendicular (90 degree angle) to the bore axis? I thought they were, it's just angled grips that are rifle-only.

 

[The Drew]

You can put a full size upper on one of these if you want, then add a stock, the barrel has to be at least 16inches before you can put a stock on. Unless you get a SBR stamp from the BATF... The "right" thing to do with one of these is to go ahead and invest the $200 and get the stamp so that if you intend on messing with it you can't get into any trouble...

I think a 7.5inch AR with a M4 stock would be awesome!!!

 

[MikeB]

My Carbon 15 Pistol is a heck of a lot easier to shoot and control than most people who haven't fired one believe it to be. Heck it's lighter than my S&W .500 or my .445 Supermag and several other handguns I own. You just shoot it like a normal pistol one or two handed. No need for a foregrip. It's also suprisingly accurate.

Of course you can also use the mag well for a grip if you like.

 

[Zach S]

I've thought about one, not very seriously though.

Do not, under any circumstances, put any sort of foregrip on it. You will have made a completely illegal short barreled rifle.

AOW, IIRC...

I think a 7.5inch AR with a M4 stock would be awesome!!!

I agree, but I think if I ever take the SBR route I'll go with an 11.5" instead.

ETA:
http://quarterbore.com/ar15m16/micro-car.htm

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got the AR and AK pistol.
Like MikeB said the AR is so light it's easy to shoot like a pistol. It is EXTREMELY loud and has an interesting fireball. As for being practical it could be a good house or vehicle gun. The 55gr bullet only does 2,000 FPS out of the 7 inch barrel, but getting hit with anything doing 2,000 FPS is going to ruin your day.
And as has been mentioned it's a ball to shoot.

Bushmaster




You might also be interested in the AK pistol.

It's cheaper. Not as much muzzle blast. Only loses a couple hundred FPS from the 11 inch barrel. And (mine) is very accurate. Points good from the hip. As for being practical, it also would be a good house or car gun when used as a very small powerful rifle.

It's heavy and big for a pistol. You can shoot it one handed if you are the Terminator, not that it kicks, it's just heavy. It's loud but not as loud as the AR pistol. Some ammo has an interesting fireball.

I like both of the guns but, all things considered, I lean more towards the AK.

AK blast.

 

[30 cal slob]

OH MY! THOSE ARE CUTE!

I have to get and get one now.

 

[Beren]

If you want to tame the flash and report on your AR pistol, consider one of these flashhiders:

http://www.jnrifleworks.com/cgi-bin/cart2/display.cgi?cat1=17

They're getting decent feedback on AR15.com, 10-8forums, and a couple other boards. I plan to pick one up for my SBR once it's approved. (Until I get a suppressor.)

 

[M2 Carbine]

That looks interesting.
The problem I have with my AR pistol is it's so loud it would do serious damage to your unprotected ears if used for defense.


My neighbor, a few hundred feet away, has been hearing me shoot all types of guns for many years. The first day I shot the AR pistol he asked me what the heck was that, he never heard anything that loud.

 

[Beren]

Supposedly the Noveske flash hider directs more of the blast downrange, where you typically wouldn't be standing. Thus it "sounds" less loud to you, behind the muzzle, than it otherwise would.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Hmmm, Lots mis-information, where to begin?

If you have an AR-15 pistol(and I do) you CAN do this legally with NO TAX STAMP or BATF APPROVAL

1. Add a rifle length barrel and stock(as long as you meet or exceed the minimum barrel length and mimimum overall length requirements set by FEDERAL LAW, local law permitting.
2. You can add a Rifle length barrel(16"+) without adding a stock as long as you meet the Minimum overall length requirements(26"+ for rifles) set by FEDERAL LAW.No FEDERAL LAW exists that says ALL RIFLES MUST HAVE A STOCK! Example: I built my MP-AR-pistol lower first, and used my Bushmaster M4 upper(16"+) to function test it. With the M4 upper(16+barrel FEDERAL requirement met), and the CAR receiver extension on my pistol(7 1/2"long), the other FEDERAL requirement of a rifle is met since I exceed the FEDERAL 26" minimum overall length. Therefore I had a stockless rifle in the eyes of the law, with an ~29" overall length, A PISTOL CAN become a rifle, A RIFLE CANNOT BECOME a PISTOL without FEDERAL REGISTRATION, crystal clear,no?
3. Does using the Mag-well, as a make-shift,"forward grip", make the AR pistol an AOW? No, because it serves a function to the weapon, it's secondary or make-shift utility is of no concern with the NFA. Then using anything else on the PISTOL for a secondary function, does not cross any NFA regs. If you add a carry srap(cloth) to the front sling swivel, and it also can be used as a"grip", did you just create an AOW? :banghead:

PS: Federl definition as I know them, Not legal advice, but my understanding.
Rifle- Firearm with an overall length of atleast 26", possessing a "rifled bore" of atleast 16", no matter the configuration(stock or not, pistol grip or not). If it meets the barrel length requirement and the bore-type specified(rifled), and overall length requirements, it is a legally configured rifle(can have a pistol grip added or removed).
Pistol-Concealable firearm designed to be shootable with one hand, regardless of length of barrel or overall length(unless it overlaps with the rifle defintion by having too long of a barrel combined with too long of an overall length, which makes it a rifle).So if you can conceal it, and fire it with one hand,and it does not overlap the rifle definiton, it is a pistol(and CAN NOT have a pistol grip added WITHOUT FEDERAL Registration. Easy as whistling dixie with a mouth full of crackers ! Oh yeah I fire mine like my Bushie M4, with nose to charging handle, and non-trigger hand either on the barrel shroud or the mag well(as a forward grp with elbow tucked to ribs it's very solid).

 

[Bullet]

What kind of drugs were the people that make these gun laws on?

Short barreled rifle – pistol - stock – forward grip – tax stamp – illegal

They all shoot the same cartridges.

 

[30 cal slob]

Yeah, you'd figure that any short-bbl rifle in a traditional handgun caliber just oughta be classified as a very large handgun.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Bullet
What kind of drugs were the people that make these gun laws on?
Short barreled rifle – pistol - stock – forward grip – tax stamp – illegal
They all shoot the same cartridges.
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"They" do not care that the law makes no sense, is in effective, increases cost, and infringes on the 2nd Amendment.

All "They" care about is that it's another law against gun owners.