AR-15s - Armalite vs Bushmaster vs Rock River Arms

Of these companies who makes the highest quality AR-15 for "serious social purposes"?

  • Armalite

    Votes: 43 21.4%

  • Bushmaster

    Votes: 70 34.8%

  • Rock River Arms

    Votes: 88 43.8%
  • Total voters
    201
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For those talking about RRA "winning" the contract.
here are the numbers on that.
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2003/07-July/04-Jul-2003/10-awd.htm

Notice they got the smallest portion of the contract yet they are the one screaming to the hills about how great it is they "won" this big DEA contract.

Also I have handled a number of RRA law enforcement carbine and 1 that was a DEA spec gun. They are very different from the civilian versions. Chrome Lined Barrels, Standard triggers(mainly because the 2 stage have been failing under hard use), they also seem to actually test the components before they send them out. Although honestly I don't know if they Batch or single test them.

So yes they are different from the rifles you or I would buy.
 
thats still 85 million dollars.

its not the biggest but its nothing to sneeze at either.

if i was a part of rock river i would be tickled pink, not to mention pretty proud of my accomplishment.


ps, i do not own a rock river.

So yes they are different from the rifles you or I would buy.
Click to expand...

sometimes i think its possible this could be the case with my bushmasters.

immediately after the clinton ban expired i bought them from a man, still new, and he said they were built during the ban, and were for law enforcement use, but due to the ban being lifted, i could buy them.

i could be wrong, but it would help explain why they have been so good, as opposed to being as terrible as people seem to always say they are.

they do have "LE" stamped on the barrel.
 
Like was mentioned, milspec is the minimum standards a product must meet to qualify for purchase in contract my the military, not at all better.
By the way if you look closely at what companies actually use 4140 barrel steel, alot more use it than what the chart says.
If you look at chrome lined chambers and barrels, alot more offer this or use it standard than the chart says.
If you look at properly staked gas keys, alot more have them than are given credit for, also alot that are not properly staked are given credit for it.
The list goes on and on. The chart is half right when it comes to accuracy in those features, so for those not given half of the credit for what they have, they must be just as good as thosae given credit for half of what they dont have.
I definitely wouldnt put Colt above some of those other manufacturers in comparison to quality. Milspec firearms sometimes have less attention to detail in their fit and finish as those sold to gunshops for the person who walks in and buys one.
How about H&K, and other brands not represented, they dont come close to milspec, but are supposed to be far better in everyway, and are built to hold up beyond milspec weapons.
 
Agree or disagree with the importance of the issues on "the chart" but I have sold and worked on enough AR15 pattern guns to be able to vouch for its accuracy.
 
And FB I agree with you. We both have Bushmasters that seem to break the normal pattern. Mine has been near perfect. But I have also owned and worked on a number of them that were very troublesome.
 
For those talking about RRA "winning" the contract.
here are the numbers on that.
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2003...003/10-awd.htm

Notice they got the smallest portion of the contract yet they are the one screaming to the hills about how great it is they "won" this big DEA contract.

Also I have handled a number of RRA law enforcement carbine and 1 that was a DEA spec gun. They are very different from the civilian versions. Chrome Lined Barrels, Standard triggers(mainly because the 2 stage have been failing under hard use), they also seem to actually test the components before they send them out. Although honestly I don't know if they Batch or single test them.

So yes they are different from the rifles you or I would buy.
Click to expand...

Not really...my barrel is chrome lined. I do have the match trigger and haven't heard any negative comments about their durability. The standard trigger is cheaper, which is probably why the DEA bought them (triggers, I mean).
RRA tests their rifles using normal production controls as any quality manufacturer would...just to ensure they're making a good product...as any reputable manufacturer does.

RRA isn't a big company, so production capacity may have contributed more to their DEA contract then quality. Also, being involved with DOD procurement (on the supplier side), I know new suppliers often get a smaller "piece of the pie" until they've proven themselves. After some of the (paperwork) requirements, some suppliers don't want more government contracts. I've no idea where RRA stands on this.

So, Azizza...I just don't think you know what you're talking about...probably because you paid a few hundred extra for a rifle that isn't worth a few hundred extra.
Sorry, brother...that's the way it is.
 
And FB I agree with you. We both have Bushmasters that seem to break the normal pattern. Mine has been near perfect. But I have also owned and worked on a number of them that were very troublesome.
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yes, in fact we went out today with ours and had a great time.

each of mine have fired over 7000 rounds, all my own reloads (55g fmjbt, 22.4g of hodgdons h322, with a lee factory crimp, seated to the cannelure, with cci sr primers) and have still not ever had a single stop of any kind, period.

i honestly think i may have gotten lucky with mine, and they might be of slightly different construction than other bushmasters.

on the barrel is stamped the following:

"LE M MP NATO 5.56 HBAR 1/9"

they are identical and are actually serial numbered within 100 of each other (one ends with 1011, and the other ends with 0052) with the same numbers in front of that.

lol, maybe they are different from other bushys and thats why i get such reactions when i harp on them.

of course i could be wrong about the "law enforcement models"

i often am.

on a side note, my brother fired a five shot group today at 100yds that measure about .4"

i was hearing it all the way home

(they usually shoot just under an inch)
 
Get whichever one you like; those three are comparable.

If you are seriously worried about "The Chart", save up some pennies and purchase a LMT bolt carrier assembly to throw in your RRA/Bushie/Armalite. That way you have most of the relevant stuff from "The Chart" to satisfy purists, and keep your old bolt carrier group for a spare.
 
Not really...my barrel is chrome lined. I do have the match trigger and haven't heard any negative comments about their durability. The standard trigger is cheaper, which is probably why the DEA bought them (triggers, I mean).
RRA tests their rifles using normal production controls as any quality manufacturer would...just to ensure they're making a good product...as any reputable manufacturer does.

RRA isn't a big company, so production capacity may have contributed more to their DEA contract then quality. Also, being involved with DOD procurement (on the supplier side), I know new suppliers often get a smaller "piece of the pie" until they've proven themselves. After some of the (paperwork) requirements, some suppliers don't want more government contracts. I've no idea where RRA stands on this.

So, Azizza...I just don't think you know what you're talking about...probably because you paid a few hundred extra for a rifle that isn't worth a few hundred extra.
Sorry, brother...that's the way it is.
Click to expand...

Seriously do you want to go down that route? You want to act like a Jerk because you feel you have some greater knowledge of things and don't see the need for a higher level of QC in a firearm?
And you say I don't know what I am talking about?

RRA does not MP test their barrel or bolts. I am not talking about firing one or two rounds down range, I am talking about testing high stress components for imperfections that can cause them to fail prematurely.

Chrome lining is also not standard on RRA guns. This is easy enough to verify by calling them or checking the web site.

RRA 2 stage triggers don't last under heavy use. Period. Oh they don't outright fail. but they quickly become a single stage trigger.

And let me explain to you why I choose the rifles I do. I used to sell these to dealers and departments as well as use them. I have owned DPMS, RRA, Stag, Etc. I have sold off the others because of my personal experiences, and the feedback I got from my clients. So yes now I spend a little bit more for a firearms where I don't find the quality questionable. Just like I don't buy Cheap 1911s or Phoenix Arms firearms.
 
what azizza is trying to say is that bushmaster is by far the best ar ever built.

the sooner you people listen to him, the better off i will be.

he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes, he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes, he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes.

sincerely, flyinbryan.
 
RRA does not MP test their barrel or bolts. I am not talking about firing one or two rounds down range, I am talking about testing high stress components for imperfections that can cause them to fail prematurely.

Chrome lining is also not standard on RRA guns. This is easy enough to verify by calling them or checking the web site.

RRA 2 stage triggers don't last under heavy use. Period. Oh they don't outright fail. but they quickly become a single stage trigger.
Click to expand...

MP (Magnetic Particle) testing isn't uncommon...and not really too necessary on part components either. NDT was my Navy specialty and carried that over to my early civilian career. Other then weldments, I cannot recall a new component failing a MP test. However, I'm sure the DOD contract requires it for barrels intended for selective fire rifles (M16's)....Colt wouldn't spend the extra money otherwise. I'm also curious if this carries over to their civilian semi-auto rifles.
MP testing would be better done after several thousand rounds. That's when you could expect failures. Never read or heard of an AR barrel blowing up other then from a squib or overcharged round.

You are correct on chrome on standard RRA barrels. RRA feels chromed barrels do not have the ultimate MOA accuracy the non-chromed barrels has. I prefer chrome lined for ease of maintenance since I don't shoot 200+ yards. That's why my RRA has a chromed lined barrel. Rifles built for combat use may not see routine cleaning and MOA accuracy isn't required of them anyway.So, chrome lining depends on the intended use. Both chrome lined and non-chrome lined have advantages, but that doesn't make for a better rifle.

Not sure where you got the info on the two stage trigger failures...but even if they failed and went single stage, that's not a catastrophic event. I like mine, and read a lot more good then bad about them.

At this point, I think we're going around and around, so I don't see much point in continuing the debate. You're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you, so we're both wasting our time on this thread.

If the SHTF, I'm confident both your rifle (Colt, I asume) and my RRA will hold up fine and probably outlast both of us.

he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes, he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes, he is going to tell you the truth, no matter if it hurts some feelings, or leaves people angry, mad, and venting their frustrations with every other post, he is going to do what it takes to get you people to listen, no matter what it takes.
Click to expand...

Anyway, I think FlyinBryan is getting bored responding to the posts...
 
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Glockman17366 You are correct if mil-spec called for 6061 T6. But the point I was trying to make was if it was not in the specs then it is not a mil-spec. And there is a Co. by the name of L.A.R that makes A-2 recivers that uses 6061 T6 aluminum. And call it a Mill-spec. I saw this in my Brownells catalog #4 on AR15/M16
 
Unless it is select fire it is not mil-spec, as I am pretty sure that is in the specifications. Besides mil-spec is the cheapest version that works reliably, not simply the best reliability. That is why scandium is not added to the receivers for added durability, it may be better...but ultimately that doesn't matter because it is more expensive.
 
Glockman17366 You are correct if mil-spec called for 6061 T6. But the point I was trying to make was if it was not in the specs then it is not a mil-spec. And there is a Co. by the name of L.A.R that makes A-2 recivers that uses 6061 T6 aluminum. And call it a Mill-spec. I saw this in my Brownells catalog #4 on AR15/M16
Click to expand...

So, the real question is, are M16 receivers supposed to be 7075-T6 or 6061-T6?
Or, is L.A.R. just BS'ing?

Well, based upon some research, the receiver should be a 7075-T6 forging. I'm not 100% sure that's what the design calls for, but that what a couple manufacturers (neither was Colt, BTW) make them from.
 
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It amazes me how so many folks think that Armalite is on the bottom of the list and RRA ranks better. I am just going to have to think most folks here buy RRA.

Speaks volumes about the knowledge base regarding black rifles. I guess advertising works.

:)
 
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2116996#post2116996

Bushmaster is probably the best of those three, but in my opinion the best of all time would be PWA as they are the closest thing to military you could get when they were in business yet. High quality at reasonable prices. They are machined very presicely. Cannot go wrong if it is a Pre-ban!
 
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