AR-180B vs. Kel-Tec SU-16

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yeah, why not a AR

I think the perceptions about AR unreliability are unfounded. I've read too many reports from experienced trainers, designers and combat vets to doubt that the direct gas system is very serviceable for any realistic uses. Most of the tests done on rounds between cleanings without failure hover around the 5,000 round mark with the ar15--just keep the rifle relatively clean and practically lubed and it will serve well. Have you been hearing about the nightmares involved with using the supposedly reliable AK with the Iraqi forces?
Why go to a system that reduces accuracy and increases weight, especially in an unproven rifle design?
I can't think of a more practical or ergonomic rifle to use on the ranch than a AR15.

-Chad
 
Is the Saiga .223 really that much heavier that it's much lower cost, solid reliability, and upgradeability don't "outweigh" that downside?? If you converted to some of the fairly common 5.56 hicap mags you'd have better mags, for about the same price as AR mags...
 
Funny that Armalite WOULD say that about their own product.
Could be that the AR180B actually functions better than their AR type rifles?
I have shot an AR180B fairly extensively.
It was solid, reliable and just as accurate as any AR15/M16 battle carbine.
For $650.00 or thereabouts who cares if it can mount a flash suppresser or whether a sliding buttstock can be mounted.
This is a Volksgewehr,(peoples rifle), for the 21st century.
Word is these will indeed be available with standard A2 flash suppressers now that the ban has faded away.
These rifles are still very good buys in a market crowded with more of the same.
The Ar180B is a better rifle than the Kel Tech master blaster or most Mini 14 rifles.
 
The benefit of America vs other places in the world is..

If I hate the AR, I'm free to do so. If I don't want one, EVEN IF IT'S SUPERIOR IN EVERYBODY ELSE'S MIND... I don't have to buy one. I'm not in the Army!!

Most of you have it wrong, it is not that I think the AR is unreliable; I don't like the engineering of it. That's it. I don't agree with the engineering basis in which the AR is formed. Ownership of one will then bother me till my dying day. And why on God's green earth do I need to do that to myself?

If you don't like to eat carrots, even if they are good for you, and your mom's not around, don't eat the carrot! Don't give yourself un-due psychological stress; that's what a girlfriend is for!!
 
Fair enough. I reacted because of my assumptions formed from seeing posts from others.

That said, I would also look into a shooter grade surplus M1 Carbine--which has terminal performance similar to the AR15 (and, I guess the other rifles we are discussing) out to about 150 yards--if that meets your needs.

My major concern about the kel-tec and ar-180b are how they appear to be made to a much lower quality/price point given the features that I've read about.
 
AR-180 Without the "B"

(HOWA) AR-180 Without the "B"

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I own a 180B and have been very happy with it (had two, sold one to the guy that'll watch my six). I have run it against my friends' Bushy's and RRA's and it is more accurate and reliable from what I have seen. There are some stipulations that you have to understand though. 1) Don't even think about using aftermarket mags in the B's. Stick with USGI only! Nothing else has the reputation of working in them 100% (USGI is what it was designed for). 2) The three I've shot have tight chambers. Forget lacquer coated ammo. Wolf poly coated works fine but seems REAL inaccurate. Federal M193 works great!

BTW, FORGET the suggested retail price on these mine were $569 & $579 (ANIB and NIB). The same dealer has another for $569, e-mail me for details if interested. What AR-15 are you going to get for that $????? Oly Plinker? I'd rather have poly than cast......

Check out the 180b section on ARFCOM. Lots of info on there including some from Armalite themselves (no plans for a folder - ACE is working on one, yes on the flash reducer, as soon as we get time on the chrome lining). Get the AR-180b, enjoy the reliability/cheap mags/ability to use AR match trigger assemblies, etc and use the extra dough to buy more ammo!!! :D

AR-180b - the only black rifle I'd buy multiples of......
 
I'm not sure this is entirely a fair fight.

Around here I've seen the SU go for about 450 and as low as 425, the AR goes for 550 up past 600 depending on location.
 
I have both a AR15 and a AR180B. The AR15 has less recoil, or slap, than the AR180B. The AR180B is my 13 Y/O daughters gun, so I added about a pound of weight to the stock to cut the slap. I love them both. Cleaning the 180B is a snap. Simply wipe it down with a rag and clean the bore.
Both shoot the same as far as I can tell. I do prefer the modular design of the AR15, and the ability to hang stuff on it. But I like the simplicity of the 180. Both fill my needs nicely.
I briefly considered a Kel-Tec, but my Daughter did not like it much, and I was less than impressed with it.

Just my opinion.....

:)
 
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