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AR Accuracy using peep sight....

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by deerhunter61, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. deerhunter61

    deerhunter61 Member

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    Hey Guys,

    What do you consider good? Colt AR with handle using peep sight. 50 yard shot while resting forearm on firm platform. 5 shots. Ammo is inexpensive factory.

    Thanks,
     
  2. 68wj

    68wj Member

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    One hole, maybe .30 cal sized.

    Edit: Realized you somewhat specified ammo. 1/2" could be good.
     
  3. back40

    back40 Member

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    there are too many variables. firm doesn't necessarily mean stable. some rifles actually like some of the cheaper ammo, and some won't shoot well with anything but match. the shooter is the biggest influence, so a lot depends on your skills as a marksman.

    what are you getting?
     
  4. Robert101

    Robert101 Member

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    I'll take a stab at it with the little information given. I'd say 1/2" to 3" group supported as you mention. Now I'm more on the 1.5" side when fore arm supported. Give me a bipod & prone and I'm back to 1 MOA typically at that distance. Keep in mind that 50 yards is very close.
     
  5. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    Irons and 50 yards, I'd be happy with 2 MOA, about 1".
     
  6. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

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    +1 Quentin

    Given a standard AR with A2 sights and plain jane factory ammo, 2 MOA would be perfectly acceptable.
     
  7. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    While in the Army I put 9 shots in one hole with a flyer about 1/4 inch out with a standard issue M14 and ammo. Prone sandbags peep sight. I did not try it with
    M16, but the M16 I qualified with was more accurate and I got a higher score with it. I say it is doable. I might try it.
     
  8. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    with open sights.. its the shooter, not the rifle thats the limitation.
     
  9. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Off the bench with my Colt AR with irons, I get three-shot one-MOA. Some sort of como se llama ammo, I disremember.
     
  10. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    Go to a high-power rifle match sometimes. The good shooters will all pretty easily shoot minute of angle at 100 yards (1") with the iron peep sights.
     
  11. henschman

    henschman Member

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    At Appleseed marksmanship clinics, we consider 4 MOA from field positions to be "Rifleman's Standard"... though that is not from a solid rest (it is turning your body into a "firm platform" using the rifle's sling). 4 MOA would be 2" at 50 yards. Come to an Appleseed and we will teach you everything you need to shoot to this standard consistently, from field positions, out to 500 yards. www.appleseedinfo.org
     
  12. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I would say, without a bench rest, and using a proper sling, one should be able to get 2" or less groups at 50 yards (what the previous poster said).
     
  13. ZGunner

    ZGunner Member

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    My philosophy is "if I can hit a man size silhouette then I'm happy". But you should be able to cover up all your shots with your palm from 50.
     
  14. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Accuracy

    I shot this target the other day - iron sights, prone, 100 yards - it could be better (not minute of angle for sure) but I was pleased with the score (for now).
    4F7C2FB4-0182-4378-815C-A24F3F8B99BE-673-000000F98FACE036.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  15. ZXD9

    ZXD9 Member

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    I tried 100y for the first time in June. Using a bipod on a bench.

    3 groups of 5 shots each. Groups were 1.75", 1.61" and 2.06".

    I guess theoretically they should get smaller at 50y.
     
  16. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    A good AR with good ammo should do about 1/2" - 1 MOA, a good AR with cheap ammon is anyone's guess as it totally depsnds on the ammo. But for something like PMC or XM193 I would guess about 2 MOA or 1" at 50 yards.
     
  17. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    I'd like to see some of these 1" five shot groups shot off of a sand bag on the bench at 50 yards, with the A2 peeps.

    No glass, no dots, no lead sleds, no bi-pods... not theoretical performance.... but honest "I shot this" targets ....

    That said, my personal best with an16" A2 middy at 50 yds is 1.25" (with my own hand loaded 69 gr. SMKs)

    I'd call anything inside of 2" very good shooting....
     
  18. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    Hi Vet

    Unfortunately this 1" 5-shot group is at 100 yards, not 50. It is the best I can do.

    I do shoot highpower twice per month the better part of the year. The ammo is Federal GMM. It is a RRA Standard A2 rifle with chrome-lined barrel (not floated).

    ry%3D400.jpg
     
  19. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    My views as well. Much of the inexpensive factory ammo just isn't very accurate. Some combinations of cheap ammo and decent but unexceptional guns may only do 3-5 MOA without anything being defective.

    If you want to know what you and your gun are really capable of, get some match ammo with a bullet suitable for your twist rate (69 or 77gr if you have 1 in 7 twist, 50 to 69gr (maybe) if you have 1 in 9 twist, nothing heavier than 55 if you have a 1 in 12 twist). Federal Gold Medal Match is considered both high quality and just about the reference standard.
     
  20. 68wj

    68wj Member

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    I remember in boot with a loose, off the rack A2, field prone, issue M855 ammo, at 35 yards, all holes were touching. A good rifle with even decent cheap ammo should perform well at 50 with a target small enough to be precise and large enough to see.
     
  21. Infidel4life11

    Infidel4life11 Member

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    With Irons I'd say 2MOA or less. On my 50yrd zero you could cover the group with a nickel, shooting prone with the rifle on a sand bag and magazine on the ground.
     
  22. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Well....hard to measure now but the actual ring dimensions of that 10 shot prone target posted above are X = 0.75", 10 = 1.75", 9 = 2.75". The better shooters will shoot a lot tighter groups than mine for sure.
    At 50 yards, that group would have been nearly 1/4 the size (remember that as diameter doubles the total area increases much more than 2x. A one inch circle - two MOA at 50 yards - has an area of 0.786"sq.in. A two MOA circle at 100 yards has an area of 3.14 sq.in, nearly four times larger. The reverse is true also. That one inch group in post #18 would likely have been 1/2" or smaller at 50 yds.)
    Pete
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  23. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    W.R.,

    Your targets are impressive and my hat is tipped to you...

    Your 100 yd performance is also impressive Pete... If I understand your scale correctly, the spread is ~2.5", which would in theory have halved if shot at 50 yds.

    Perhaps "good" for a regular competitive shooter and "good" for a guy off the street who just bought his first AR and wonders whether he's getting there or not are different standards.

    I'd like to know if the high power competitors are using the standard A2 aperture sizes, or if they have retrofitted a smaller hole rear sight.

    The reason I ask is that all I can see is a small black smudge at 100 yds, and even the small A2 aperture is huge by comparison.

    I've always heard that the AR is an "inherently accurate" platform.... and I definitely agree with that assessment.

    I also think that the rifle's potential for accuracy is far greater than the individual skill level of most "civilians" who handle it (and probably most in the military as well).

    So my take on the OPs question was an inquiry about what is a "reasonable expectation" for an "average Joe" with his first AR. Which is a different question than what is the capability of the rifle itself, or the rifle in the hands of an competitive shooter.

    If the bar is set too high for a new shooter who aspires to be a "rifleman" some day, guys can get discouraged and feel that they need to go for high powered optics to "get there".
     
  24. griff383

    griff383 Member

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    Ive gotten 1" groups at 100 off hand with standard A2 sights... using handloads of course

    I even got to the point where I could ring the 6" gong at 200 almost every time.
     
  25. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    Here's my personal best at 50 yds...

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure that I could reproduce this, as my eyes have headed south over the last two years :^(
     
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