What to look for when using peep sights?

[Barny]

Hello all,

I recently put a rear peep on my Marlin 336 for improved accuracy. After putting a needed taller front sight, I think I have ran into a another problem. What exactly I am looking for in the front sight. Do I look past the peep and just look for the post or am I trying to visualize the whole front sight in itself? At 50 yards its shooting neigh 6 inches low just looking at the post and about right when looking at the whole sight. I understand the whole sight method works for me right now but I would prefer to properly use the peep sights. Any insight on what to look for?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

 

[ldsgeek]

Just look for the post, your eye should automatically center on the peep. All you should see of the peep is a fuzzy ring.

 

[Palehorseman]

You do nothing. So far as the shooter is concerned, the aperture sight does not exist, you look through it and shoot.

 

[BCRider]

Just look through the fuzzy rear opening and put the bead of the front sight on the spot where you want the hole to be.

If it's a rectangular blade on the front instead of a bead I tend to like using the front blade the same as a handgun sight. namely I split the spot horizontally where I want the bullet hole to appear and center the spot in the middle of the top edge of the blade.

 

[chicharrones]

If you are using the sight hood to center the front sight into the rear aperture, it can help with precision in some cases depending on the size of the aperture. However a Marlin hood isn't really made for use that way. Although it can be done, as I've done it both ways with my Marlin 39 with a rear aperture. Both with and without front sight hood.

In comparison, military front sights with the protective ears seem to be designed to center in the rear aperture almost perfectly depending on the gun and sights. With the right diameter aperture it makes precision sighting easier using the front sight ears to help out with centering for windage.

In both the military sight or the Marlin, I believe this is more evident with a larger rear aperture for hunting/low light/ghost ring. For a smaller target type aperture all you really need is the front post for precise centering. In my limited experience anyway.

 

[1911 guy]

Peep sights work because the eye automatically centers whatever is in front of the round hole. Concentrate on the front sight and ignore the rear. Your eye will take care of it on "autopilot".

 

[itsa pain]

Hello all,

I recently put a rear peep on my Marlin 336 for improved accuracy. After putting a needed taller front sight, I think I have ran into a another problem. What exactly I am looking for in the front sight. Do I look past the peep and just look for the post or am I trying to visualize the whole front sight in itself? At 50 yards its shooting neigh 6 inches low just looking at the post and about right when looking at the whole sight. I understand the whole sight method works for me right now but I would prefer to properly use the peep sights. Any insight on what to look for?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

If it is shooting 6" low at 50 yds you do not need the taller front site. Put your lower site back on

 

[Barny]

Thanks to all that replied. What I think I will try on my next outing is to get my eye as close as I can safely and whatever the front sight looks like will be right.

 

[SC Shooter]

This thread reminded me of my first gun, a Winchester Model 57 .22 with a Lyman peep sight, given to me by my grandfather when I was fourteen. With that gun, I harvested many a ground hog in the neighboring fields and pastures. A few months ago, I decided to take that gun to the range. On sighting down range, i was amazed at how hard it was to focus through the peep. Those 50 plus years have not been kind to my eyes. My scoped rifles are no problem, my iron sites still work fine, but I have learned, that peep sights are for younger eyes, than mine.

 

[Slamfire]

It is hard to describe proper sight alignment.

Wiki has a number of pictures, let me talk to the MP5 target image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sight

My target rifles have adjustable rear peep sights. I can adjust the size of the rear aperture to achieve the clearest front sight and target image. I think your peep is fixed.

Basically you look through the rear peep, center the post, such as the MP5 image, the world will be in a circular frame and that is good.

You also have a post, and with a post you have several options of post alignment.

I am of the opinion that the center hold is the best. Put the target in the middle and the post in the middle of the target. Point of impact is exactly at the top of the post. I use this as putting everything in the center is easy to remember.

I have tried six O clock holds and have messed up my score when I forgot whether the target was in the middle or the post.

A Marine Corp rifle team shooter gave me a bit of wisdom that I have learned and remembered since "Sight alignment is more important than sight picture". If you are a little off on front and rear sight alignment your point of impact is much more affected than the post being a little right or left on the target.

 

[CraigC]

You simply "peep" through the rear aperture and other than that, completely disregard it. Your eye will automatically center the post in the aperture. I like to zero them where the bullet impacts at the top of the front sight.

I have learned, that peep sights are for younger eyes, than mine.

Peep sights should work better for aged eyes than barrel mounted open sights.

 

[MEHavey]

whatever the front sight looks like will be right....

No !!!

You focus everything on the front sight.
It should be absolutely sharp and crisp.
All else can (and will) be relatively burred.

Its top edge should center in the image as through it were aligned with crosshairs:


Some put that top edge in the center of their target.
Some hold at 6 O`clock on the bottom of the bullseye.
At that point it's personal preference.

BUT... that front sight post is always the center of focus.

 

[Barny]

After reading Slamfire1's post, I believe I lead you guys astray. I have a post with a bead for the front sight. Would I place the bead on the center of the target then? From what I understand with a post front sight you align it under the center of the target to get the sight picture dubbed "Pumpkin on a Post".

 

[MEHavey]

With a small bead (as opposed to a square post), I simply center the circular bead in the aperture -- naturally aligning two concentric circles.
The target/point-of-impact then goes on top of that centered bead. (I do this with the 32" barreled Hawken)

With a larger bead (like that one that appears on my 18" Marlin Guide Gun), I align the top of the bead as though with those crosshairs again
-- and then the target/point-of-impact on top of that as usual.

It's very natural. I don't even think about it as I switch from one to the other.

Whichever you choose, that's your chosen sight picture.
Do that consistantly and you'll be fine.

 

[BCRider]

but I have learned, that peep sights are for younger eyes, than mine.

SCShooter, like Craig I find that peep sights are a boon for us with "old guy eyes". But to be of aid and not a hindrance the peep sight has to be located on the rear of the receiver or mounted to the tang of the action. The idea being to put a small diameter peep hole back within a close distance to the eye. With this arrangement the peep aperature actually sharpens our vision a little.

But if the aperature is a large open hole or it is located forward in replacement of the rear sight then that is a whole other story. You now lose the sharpening aspects and you have what is more accurately described as a ghost ring rear sight. Fast to use but not as sharply accurate. And a setup that does not improve the shooter's visual sharpness.

The "how" of this is the small size peep hole acts like a small iris for the "camera" that is our eyeball. The small aperture increases the depth of field of our eye and masks to some extent distortion and fuzziness due to astigmatism. But to do this the peep hole has to be located close enough to our eye so that it can be considered to be an extension of the eye.

You can try this for yourself. Poke a clean small hole in some aluminium foil and press back the material around a small sewing needle. After the hole is shaped blacken the area around the aperture with carbon from a candle or lighter Then look through the hole at something that normally looks blurry. With the aperture close to the eye at the same distance as eyeglasses you'll see a fairly wide field of view and it should be noticeably sharper.

It'll also look darker. The small size aperture limits the amount of light reaching our eye. We can control this to some extent by using different size apertures as long as the size remains relatively small.

 

[Slamfire]

After reading Slamfire1's post, I believe I lead you guys astray. I have a post with a bead for the front sight. Would I place the bead on the center of the target then? From what I understand with a post front sight you align it under the center of the target to get the sight picture dubbed "Pumpkin on a Post".

That is a good question, and I don't really have the answer, but I believe it depends on the distance and whether the bead looks round. I have beads that are so small that in effect, I treat them as square posts. I cannot see them sharply enough to tangentially align them with the bottom of a round bull. However, on game, since very few game animals have round target bulls painted on them, I think that putting the bead exactly over the spot you want to hit is probably a better idea.

 

[CraigC]

6 o`clock hold, no matter the style of front sight. I never want to have to cover my target with the front sight.

 

[MEHavey]

 

[SwampWolf]

I would prefer to properly use the peep sights. Any insight on what to look for?

Larry Koller, The Golden Guide to Guns: "Peep sight...The proximity of eye to sight permits an unusually wide field of vision, and the eye's instinctive ability to peer through the small aperture, automatically centering the front sight, increases the chances of accuracy. Since the hunter needs only to align the front sight with the game, the peep is far faster to use than open rear- sights which have three points of reference: rear sight, front sight and game."

Jack O'Connor, The Hunting Rifle: "...The aperture sight makes more sense optically than the open sight since the eye looks through the rear sight, pays attention only to the front sight and the target. This is possible because the eye instinctively places objects at the point of strongest light-in this case the front sight in the center of the peep."

Jim Carmichel, The Modern Rifle: "...Hunting peeps, however, can be amazingly fast. The trick of using them efficiently is learning to look through the rear sight and not at it...The speed of the peep arrangement comes from the fact that the shooter doesn't have to consciously align the front and rear sights with the target. Just putting the front sight on target brings the rifle to bear because simply looking through the rear aperture automatically takes care of this part of the sight alignment picture."

Craig Boddington, American Hunting Rifles: "...Aperture, or peep, sights operate on a totally different principle(from conventional iron/open sights)...The sights consist of a blade or bead front and an open circle varying in diameter as a rear sight. The eye naturally centers the bead or tip of the blade in the middle of the open circle, so you never need to focus on, or even see,the rear sight. One plane is eliminated; all you have is the front sight and the target to worry about. This makes the aperture sight a great deal faster than an open sight. It's also much more suitable for older eyes, and significantly better in bad light."