AR/AK/.308 advice please...

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

~Abstract~

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
78
I've got about $1000 to spend.

I currently own a .270win(POS), Marlin .22, a couple shotguns and a few handguns.

I'm looking for a gun I can plink/deer hunt with, and I'm thinking .308 AR.

But my budget is capped at $1000.

Options I'm considering...

1) LR-308 base model without the dustcover or chromelined barrel. How important is chrome and dustcover on the .308?

2) Decent .223 AR like a Bushmaster or S&W...it's legal in my state to hunt with .223 and I know people who do so successfully. Placement matters more than caliber...right?

3) Cheaper .223 like DPMS/CMMG AND cheaper AK47.



What would you do?

Thank you!!!
 
~Abstract~ said:
I've got about $1000 to spend.
.......

What would you do?
Click to expand...

re #1 - if you can get a nice 308 AR, sure.
re #2 - legal != ethical/correct/best/should/could/will.
re #3 - see #2

If it were me, I'd get a nice bolt action in 7mm-08. plinking with 308 is expensive, esp when you already have a 22 plinker..
 
Trust me, plinking with .308 is expensive! I'd have to agree with what Bloody said. But, I'd look at the Rock River Arms LAR308.
 
The ONLY reason you would want a dust cover/ forward assist on an AR-10 is that the shell deflector is part of this option. I havent shot one without but if your a lefty I imagine that would be a no brainer. As far as the forward assist goes, I havent seen a bolt with serrations for an AR-10 which makes the forward assist pretty much for looks.

Most people dont need the dust cover, mine almost always stays open even when in the field, but thats just me.

Chrome lining isnt important, some prefer it, some dont, personal choice.
 
if you are thinking about deer hunting then i would encourage you to go for the .308, but there is something to be said for buying a gun that you can afford to shoot.

most .223 ammo can be had for 6-8 bucks for a box of 20, but most of that is non-reloadable (if that matters to you). the price goes up when you get reloadable ammunition.

i get most of my .308 reloadable ammo for 9-11 bucks per 20.
 
I'm right handed...

I'll probably buy .308 at Walmart like I do with my .270. Just grab a box or two every time I think about it whether I'm shooting that weekend or not.

I really don't run through that much ammo...I like shooting, but I'm pretty conservative about running clip after clip POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...new clip...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1)...POW!($1) etc...

I go to the range a few times a year and I'll run thru 100 or so .22...and maybe 2 boxes of .270. Mainly to ensure that the zero is true....I don't envision running 100 rounds of .308 more than a few times a year. Probably once or twice until the novelty wears thin...then back to 20-30 .308 and a hundred .22

I don't reload.

I expect the rifle will stay in a hard case in my closet except when in use. I've got a short barrel 12ga for home defense.
 
Is it a comparable replacement? I would much rather have the AR if I'm hunting. From my experiences (with both) the accuracy of the AR was far superior to the Saiga and worth the extra money.

I'm not wanting this to be an argument, this is just based on my experience with both.

What type of ranges will you be shooting?
 
Is a Saiga 308 a comparable replacement to an AR?
Click to expand...

Not really, IMO.

They're both semi-auto .308's based on battle rifles, but the similarity ends there. The AR has better ergonomics, scope mounting options and accuracy. The Saiga is a rough and tumble type beater. If I were to bet which one would still function after being packed with mud and run over by a truck, I'd pick the Saiga. If I were to bet which one you'd be more likely to hit a buck with at 200 yards, I'd pick the AR.

For occasional range shooting and hunting with an outside possibility of SHTF use, I'd choose the AR hands down.
 
Hi I am new here but I just saw a nice post about a Saiga .308 accuracy and they were doing below MOA consistently.
Just in case this helps.
Thank you.
 
Very recently I went through a similar decision process and wound up buying the Bushmaster E2S Modular Carbine w/ Tele-Stock (a flat top design) in 223. Great gun and I LOVE shooting it! It does have the forward assist and dust cover but I don't think either is required for normal sportsman's use. I am thinking I'll add a brass catcher pretty soon. I also bought a Nikon M223 scope for it with the cartridge-calibrated optics that allow you to correct for drop at distances over 100 yards. The package w/scope was quite a bit more than your budget but you can start with a very good Bushmaster or S&W for around $1,000 (I'd err towards going a little over budget or cutting features rather than buying a cheaper gun). The S&W M&P and Bushmaster were my short-listed guns and I think you'll do well with either. Both get you in the game for $1,000. And both are very flexible in terms of added features later.

As to 308, I pondered that as well, and also 30 Rem and 7.62. I went with .223 principally because the ammo is very affordable (with a bit of shopping, around $300 to $350 per 1,000) AND you can add another upper later when you're interested in adding some horsepower (though I'm impressed with the 223, and I'm mostly a big bore guy). Uppers seem to run around $400-$500, so you can later (in a "new budget year") add 308 to your arsenal fairly cheaply while keeping the low cost plinking option.

My only complaint about the Bushmaster is why I waited so long to buy it!!
 
I go to the range a few times a year and I'll run thru 100 or so .22...and maybe 2 boxes of .270. Mainly to ensure that the zero is true....I don't envision running 100 rounds of .308 more than a few times a year. Probably once or twice until the novelty wears thin...then back to 20-30 .308 and a hundred .22
Click to expand...

One of the real attractions to an AR over a more traditional rifle is the ability to run mags through it. It's built for exactly that - I was at the range today with my son and we put perhaps 250 rounds trough the AR, and it was one of 6 guns we were shooting (the others ate much more most numbers of rounds). Dumping a 30-round clip costs about $10. Not trivial but it was definitely money well spent. On the other hand, if you're really planning on putting only 20-30 rounds through the gun a few times a year, I wouldn't buy an AR. I'd look at a traditional bolt action 308 or 30-06 (I have a great, old '06) or perhaps 22-250 or 25-06. Great calibers available in great platforms (the Kimber series has definitely caught my eye!)
 
Hi I am new here but I just saw a nice post about a Saiga .308 accuracy and they were doing below MOA consistently.
Just in case this helps.
Click to expand...

That hasn't been my experience. Not saying it didn't happen, but while I do have some rifles that I can shoot MOA with, my Saiga's aren't among them. The best I managed were groups of just under 2" @100 yards with handloads out of my 16" S308.

Now, I personally think that's pretty good accuracy for an AK and is more than adequate for hunting. The thing is though, an AR just has a much better layout if what you're interested in is accuracy. AK's really don't have much more than a marginal scope mounting system, while you can buy an AR with rails built right into the upper. Likewise, AK's really weren't made to be free floated. Then you've got the gas piston. While I like the reliability and cleanliness of a gas piston, they're just inherently not as accurate as direct impingement.

The Saiga's still a good gun, a great deal and one of the best shooting AK's ever made, but as a target gun I just don't think it's the equal of an AR or a bolt action.
 
I have been doing the same. I found the .308's heavy to lug around deer hunting. The .30-30 does ok, but I was raised on self loaders, jacking the action and losing the sight picture following the first shot doesn't work for me.

I wanted an AR, I wanted a better caliber than 5.56, I was budget limited, and I don't plan on dumping mags or chewing up a pallet of ammo every weekend. I am building a 6.8SPC.

So far, about $656, I need the small parts to assemble the upper. Had my cash flow come in bigger chunks, I could have bought a fixed stock lower, an ARP upper, and been done for nearly the same money. 6.8 is a good match for the AR, keeps it light enough, but delivers 40% more power, and has good range out to 400m, on the rare occasion. I think it will do a fine job.

Daniel Defense is coming out with a hunting grade line of 6.8's called Ambush Arms, just announced it at the SHOT show going on right now. Hopefully they will be priced right.
 
I have been dealing with the same dilemma. I am saving my money and getting a 308 AR. My problem with the Saiga is the 16in barrel! I am currently living in MN and we are allowed to deer hunt with rifles in certain areas. However the shots are close as most of MN is wooded, i am sure the Saiga would do a fine job of hunting here in MN.

I was raised in SD however and the country is a lot more flat out there and we tend to shoot longer distances, i have hunted deer at around 400 yards and know guys who shoot deer and antelope at much greater distances on a yearly basis. I feel i will be better served by a bull barreled AR chambered in 308.

I would also look at DPMS's chambered in 243, its a much better long range cartridge than either the 223 or the 6.8 and more easy to shoot on both the pocket book and shoulder compared to a 308.
 
I'm in the Ozarks.

It's all deer "woods"...not many places where you'll ever see a deer past 100 yards.

The .243 is an interesting option...


When people talk about wearing barrels out (without chrome lining) how many rounds does that take?

Thanks everyone for you help and input so far! I appreciate it.
 
It's a Remington 710...

Pretty accurate...but not what I'd call a "quality" rifle. It's a hand-me-down. I'd like to expand the collection with well made arms.
 
I'd love to have an AR10 or similar but it is costly for me so I went the Saiga 308 route (21" barrel) and it is an awesome gun and plenty accurate for plinking, hunting (for the areas I hunt in the SE up to 200 yds), whatever.
guns002.jpg
 
Last edited:
I own the LR-308T, and I will assert that it a fine rifle once the factory-furnished place-holder trigger is replaced.

I think the LR-308 is probably a little over your budget.

You can get a very nice AR-type 5.56 carbine for around $700.

I own several AK's, and they are fine for what an AK tries to be.
I don't think the AK is a good choice the precision shooter.
You can spend a LOT of money on an AK to make it much more accurate than other AK's.
Your box-stock "POS" 710 will probably still stomp the bejeezus out of the hot-rod AK for accuracy.
 
The AR's great systems. The M1As great systems too. I shoot them too. FNAR nice! and the list goes on.
The reason I created the post for the SAIGA 16" is because after converted we are getting below MOA consistently. Not one lucky day but ALL THE TIME. The conversion and accuratization is a piece of cake. In the same trajectory as the M1A socom and Scout as they do pretty well too but they are way more expensive and still, the SAiga 16" is just a tad more accurate. 16 inchers loose a tad of speed but it is more accurate than the 21". The reason, same barrel density, change harmonics, less accuracy nodes. All other things being equal a shorter barrel is a more accurate one. That's why SWAT snipers favor the 20" and even the 18" systems. Also for weight and maneuverability. I have them all and shoot many thousands of loads over the years, Nato, commercial and home recipe.
I posted the Saiga conversion and those targets in there for everyone to analyze. Once someone asks me if I believe in extraterrestrial life I tell them, I cannot affirm it nor deny it as I have not experienced anything that either proves or disproves the facts so the possibility is out there. As the scientific mind works, open up to possibilities.
I have been playing with the ARs, the M1As and the Saigas for many years and the saigas in this round and in 16" have a pretty good mojo going. The average 150 grainers, surplus Nato, reload or over the counter, love the tune of this barrel.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005

Cheers.
E.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
AR Purchase Advice Please
Replies
10
Views
759
Mulliga
M
S
  • Locked
I want an AR
Replies
10
Views
759
lycanthrope
L
F
  • Locked
.308 Winchester AR-10 rifle questions ???
Replies
4
Views
360
Float Pilot
Float Pilot
F
  • Locked
Why so much $$$ for semi .308 rifles?
2
Replies
25
Views
4K
scythefwd
S
C
  • Locked
7.62x39 AR's as reliable as AK's???
Replies
15
Views
1K
Bartholomew Roberts
B
Back
Top