Quantcast

AR muzzle device with the least blast to shooter

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Orion8472, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Pat Riot, I haven't tried it without the Smith Vortex. Having said that, I'd want something that actually is better than no break. I need all the assistance as I can get....best case scenario....before deciding whether I get rid of it or not.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    58,700
    Location:
    Alabama
    Sounds like it is time for a tax stamp and a suppressor.
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  3. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Walkalong....I didn't want to jump through the ATF hoops and spend the large amount of money for something like this.

    Thanks for the input though. :)
     
  4. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,497
    A 20” barrel does have less blast than a 16”. It’s like putting a 4” tube on a 16” barrel to lower pressure and place the sound further away from the shooter plus you get increased velocity.
     
    Nuclear likes this.
  5. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Hawkeye East

    Whereas a flash forwarding device like the Kaw Valley adds an expansion chamber and front baffle that reduces recoil while directing sound directionally away from the shooter and for far less than the cost of a new barrel.

    I work near a switchyard with trains constantly arriving at crossings. Anyone who’s ever been stopped at a crossing knows how unpleasant that whistle is as a train approaches and how much less grating it is after it has passed. If you’ve ever looked at the design or that of a megaphone you’ll understand how the KVP and similar devices work.

    Please excuse my iPhone doodles but maybe they’ll help.


    Standard diffuser style brake dispersing sound.
    F8BA8672-2393-43F0-84DC-1EF45EF64863.jpeg


    Bare muzzle dispersing sound.
    6D562C94-A48A-4138-AEB7-2BCD49219506.jpeg


    Flash forwarding device dispersing sound.
    F3609AA0-0BCF-4E41-AB80-212F7A5A0090.jpeg


    This disperses sound and drops pressure before funneling it away. By definition it’s a single-chamber suppressor but still ATF approved with no stamp.
    902D2E36-81A2-49C1-BA28-3A015D9846A7.jpeg


    And one of these actually angles it back toward the shooter.
    AE6BD0B9-1833-4F41-9020-466E0007E462.jpeg
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  6. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    I like the drawings. And that's why I was thinking that the forward blast devices might help me out some. Thanks for the input, Skylerbone.
     
  7. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,497
    I have the Kaw Valley on my 16” and it has a lot less blast compared to a brake, but makes little difference compared to the bird cage flash hider. Honestly it’s like a 2 inch long thread protector. It does help some, and there are YouTube videos that measure the reduction in decibels for the shooter so you can judge for yourself if it’s worth a try.

    But my 20” with bird cage has noticeably less blast for the shooter and those around. The 4 extra inches makes a noticeable difference.
     
    Orion8472 likes this.
  8. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    readyeddy, I found your results to be very interesting. It sounds like the KAW didn't really do much on a 16" barrel. I can see how it would be helpful on a 10", but it almost seams as though the longer the barrel gets, the less "helpful" comps like the KAW will be. So, putting one on the end of a 20" barrel may not make much difference at all. The problem is, I doubt very many have tested a 20" barrel bare and then with something like the KAW.
     
  9. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    The problem with the noise reduction numbers is they don’t make sense if you aren’t versed in their meaning.

    Looking at the below chart, if we take the 3-4db reduction measured in the video, it would be represented by the first line. Now looking at the Actual SPL (Sound Pressure Level) reduction you’ll see that pressure has been cut in half while the ear’s “perceived” reduction is less than 20%. It is not until you get to a 10db rating that your ears tell you sound is half as loud.

    Years of research has told acousticians that most people notice an up or down tic in noise with a 3db change. The numbers may seem minuscule but they are significant. And, because of the direction the sound wave is traveling, the noise emitted is less objectionable. Think about that train horn again; waaaaaaaaa...oooooooooh. I don’t sell these things for a living, just a casual user, and I’ve already had club members remark at the lack of side blast they get from my pistol.



    B7631C1E-D385-44BF-8653-1FE13A66A908.jpeg
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  10. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,497
    I would try the Kaw with 20”. The Kaw does reduce the decibels to the shooter like the video shows by about 3 decibels.

    I believe your goal is to reduce blast as much as possible without using a suppressor. The best way is to combine as many factors as you can to incrementally accumulate the reduction. So combine the longer barrel with some kind of muzzle device like a Kaw or Flaming Pig. Added up together you should get the best results possible.
     
    Walkalong and Orion8472 like this.
  11. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Sounds like the best way to go, readyeddy, if I want to keep this rifle.
     
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    58,700
    Location:
    Alabama
    Yes it does, if you are unwilling to go the suppressor route. A long barrel and a muzzle device to throw sound forward.

    I will add to this to shoot in wide open spaces where the sound doesn't bounce right back at you. This can make a huge difference. In my Marlin 39a in an open field with .22 shorts all I can hear is the hammer falling. Well, when I could hear anyway. :)
     
  13. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Walkalong,...that really is an issue [where I shoot]. The only place to shoot is at a conservation range with wooden walls. A lot of bouncing around there, I'm sure. I would love to be able to shoot out in the open, but I just don't have that ability....sadly.
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    If you can sew, even if you can’t, there’s hope here. Beyond high priced acoustical treatments there is the lowly common foam. Now I’m talkin the mattress memory, old couch type, not Barbasol. A trip down a few alleys on big junk pick up day, a trip to Joann Fabrics, or an Amazon click to buy a few outdoor furniture pads can really help mitigate sound off of those barrier walls.

    Cover the foam in denim or canvas (or a painter’s drop cloth), add a grommet to hang them by, bring a cordless drill and a few screws, and you’ll be in business. Just remember to take them with you when you leave. I don’t know when you last house hunted and found a vacant place but if you ever have you’ll remember all that echo before carpet and furnishings absorbed those sound waves. There you go, carpet remnants.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    Demi-human and Walkalong like this.
  15. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Skylerbone, that would be helpful, but I don't think they would let me put something like that up. Nice suggestion, though.
     
  16. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    You could always build a few stands that come apart easily or ask the RO if they might accommodate a person with a “disability”, be sure to use that word. I wish you luck in your quest to continue shooting.

    Edited to qualify my post: It was not my intention to imply you are disabled, merely that using that word might give significance to your situation and be better received by the RO. Hearing sensitivity is indeed a real issue facing many people and I hope they will accommodate you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    Demi-human likes this.
  17. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Perhaps. Thanks again for the suggestions.
     
  18. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    Another question as per brands of "blast forward devices". Which would you think would do a better job?

    1. Midwest Industry Blast Diverter.
    2. KAW KVP Magnum 3.25".

    Or will there really not be much of a difference?
     
  19. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    6,507
    KVP magnum of the two. It’s the larger chamber, letting down the expanding gas volume more gently than the MWI Blast Diverter.
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  20. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    I can see how that would help. Would it be a noticeable difference between the two? I purchased the MWI Blast diverter and I think it did help a little over a bare muzzle...but if I can get even more diversion, that would be better [of course].
     
  21. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Southern VA
    I have heard the AFAB is good for this.
     
  22. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    I don't know what the "AFAB" is. Can you elaborate, please?
     
  23. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    Demi-human likes this.
  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    6,507
    Been there, done that. Still lots of pressure to be let down when venting from a 20” AR.
     
  25. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,108
    I'm thinking I might just hang up the idea of the AR. With the MWI on the end it was still too loud, and since any good suppressor is a song and dance with the government, after giving them $200, then ~$500-800, it is just too pricey to go that way. If the KAW isn't significantly better then it is a waste of money.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice