ar newbies

[allaroundhunter]

"Amen!"

I still think chrome lining is over rated.

+1.....and lumping anything together based on price is as well.

To make a comparison, Kimber 1911's. They are priced up there with much more expensive guns, but you often hear of problems.....what "tier" would they be in? (That is a rhetorical question, just trying to offer an allusion as to why the "tier" system based on price is faulted)

 

[diesel]

i have a dpms sportical and i love it i only have about 1k rds through it but it has ran fine for me and is quite accurate too for a lower tier gun lol

 

[Gtimothy]

When I first joined THR, I tried using the search function and found it difficult to use and most often useless.:banghead:

Part of being new to a particular gun is not knowing what to ask or how to ask it. I've asked some some stupid questions about ARs but it doesn't help when you get responses such as "This has been covered before, use the search" or "just what we need, another question about(fill in the blank)".

I always appreciate info from other members and thank them for their help. If you are tired of the repeat posts, don't reply to them...Besides, how else do you get your number of posts to go up if you don't ask questions?

That being said, where does a Spike's Tactical lower/Adams Arms upper fall?

 

[Walking Dead]

Where would a Spikes Tactical rate on said scale?

 

[G.barnes]

i came across wrong with the search function thing. i meant you can look and see if your questions have been asked intead of waiting around for people to answer. as far as spikes or del ton if they have met all the testing specs then they are a top rifle. there are top rifles like spikes and psa that are more in the midrange price but they usually have longer wait times. my point was for a guy looking at a bushmaster for 850 that he could see that he can get a better rifle for a little more and a colt or bcm will resale better if you dont like it. if someone really wants a cheap ar get an s&w sport they have a chromelined bolt etc and melonited barrel. im not trying to bash anything anyone has just want people to know they dont have to skimp to stay under 1000 dollars. and any lower from a reputable company with a reputable lpk will be more than sufficent as long as it is properly assembled.

 

[tarosean]

That being said, where does a Spike's Tactical lower/Adams Arms upper fall?

Where would a Spikes Tactical rate on said scale?

Never tried one never will.. they look like they have been finished by a 3rd grader with a box of crayolas. I guess they have found their niche with all the cool kids who want zombies and pirates, etc. JMHO.

 

[Walking Dead]

I'm as likely to be shooting at zombies and pirates as I am at having an all out tactical assault in my neighborhood.

 

[Tipro]

What does it mean to be "properly staked," and what is "hammer forged" ?

 

[madcratebuilder]

What does it mean to be "properly staked," and what is "hammer forged" ?

The properly staked is referring to the staking of the gas key on the bolt carrier. Sometimes if the key bolts are not staked they can loosen up in service causing a gas leak that makes the gun short stroke.

Some people place incredible importance on this,others don't. My experience tells me if you have quality key bolts properly torqued to spec staking is not absolutely required. Young's Manufacturing makes one of the best BCG's on the market, they are un-staked and if the end user stakes them the life time warranty is void. Many apply the same thinking about castle nuts, they have to be staked or the rifle WELL fail, total BS.

"Hammer forged" is just a method of manufacturing a barrel, one of many, no better no worse than other methods. It is a low cost way of manufacturing a barrel.

Given a choice of barrels I would always take a PacNor from John Noveske.

Quote:
That being said, where does a Spike's Tactical lower/Adams Arms upper fall?
Quote:
Where would a Spikes Tactical rate on said scale?
Never tried one never will.. they look like they have been finished by a 3rd grader with a box of crayolas. I guess they have found their niche with all the cool kids who want zombies and pirates, etc. JMHO.

I'm not a fan of "color filling" on any fire arm unless it's gold or silver on a antique. Lot of guys like the Spikes logo and like to do the color fill. It's really no different than a collector that spends big bucks just to get a specific roll mark on a Mauser or Enfield.

The Spikes upper/lowers are mil-spec 7075 typeII coating, the roll mark isn't mil-spec, who cares.

 

[G.barnes]

hammerforging is more expensive and makes for a longer life barrel. only a 3 companies make hammerforged barrels. fn who makes the militaries machinegun barrels, daniel defense recently purchased one so they can make all their barrels in house and i forget the 3rd.

 

[tarosean]

I'm not a fan of "color filling" on any fire arm unless it's gold or silver on a antique. Lot of guys like the Spikes logo and like to do the color fill. It's really no different than a collector that spends big bucks just to get a specific roll mark on a Mauser or Enfield.

The Spikes upper/lowers are mil-spec 7075 typeII coating, the roll mark isn't mil-spec, who cares.

Im not talking about color fill nor the roll mark per say.. Im talking about the final finished product from the LAR factory that produces all the DPMS/BushM/Fulton/CMMG/Spikes/dStar/ etc. etc.

 

[tundraotto]

hammerforging is one of the MOST expensive ways of making a barrel!

low cost of making a barrel ***????

 

[G.barnes]

I started this for people who i feel are like me out there. While there are plenty of people with great rifles from all manufacturers but some do stand above the rest. For people who just want to plink at the range then a 600 dollar is great, If your target shooting only and precision is your main focus then that's a different kind or ar. If you want a rifle that will last through 10,000 of thousands of rounds that is where the top rifles stand apart. When people are researching they say how is so and so and you here the put 500 to 1000 rounds and they're great and it'll shoot a 3/4 Moa group. The ar is a 2 Moa rifle. It's great that your rock river will shoot a tighter group than a bcm with its non chrome lined barrel. That barrel will also wear out in a quarter of the rounds. There is a list of military requirement to be mill spec and all the stuff has to be met ( with exception of select fire). Properly staked gas key with grade 8 bolts and chrome lined barrel hp ( they fire a high pressure round through gun) and mpi ( mag patrical testing for stress cracks). Hammer forging is the best barrel making process there is and that is why they are only found on higher end guns ( Psa being an exception as they offer hammer forged barrels made by fn). As far as the actual machining process it can be google and there are many many threads about it and how it done. The upper receiver must have m4 feedramps a lot of companies in the middle range do a pretty shoty job of having the barrel extension ramps meet the receiver ramps. The castle nut must be staked. A top rifle might be harder to get but it's worth the wait if you want something that will last. You buy the rifle get out there love want to start doing completions or carbine classes and now your wish you spent a little bit more. If its a 200 dollar difference that is nothing compared to what the ammo costs. Now for range plinking and range accuracy or varmint hunting or precision shooting then that's different. If 1500 rounds is a lot then get the mid priced more accurate ar. The way to really go if that's what your looking for is a custom build. Pick any complete lower from a reputable manufacturer. Which ever length barrel you like and get stainless. The lifespan is not much different than non lined and they're more accurate. Get a .223 chamber instead of a 5.56. As most of your rounds you shoot will be .223 unless you just have to shoot NATO rounds for some reason. The .223 chamber has a shorter throat than 5.56 and therefor is less accurate in the longer chamber. Pick a twist rate of your preference of what rounds you will be shooting. Mine are mostly 55 to 64 grain as that's what seems to be affordable. Any twist rate should work fine for those but you'll need to try different brands and weights to see which work best for you. The is also the wylde .233 which is longer to accept NATO rounds with a 1/8 twist rate. Again I'm not saying that anyone's stuff is bad but if companies are claiming mil spec and charging for mil spec then you should be getting what your paying for. My local gun shop had a S&W optic ready with plastic hand guards. 960 plus tax and background check. I ordered through my other local shop ( who had the S&Ws for a little more both quoted me the same price) order me a Daniel defense from their distributor. It was 1280 before tax and check. It came with a 12 dd omega x free float rail magpul moe stock magpul enhanced foregrip and dd vertical foregrip. If you take off what the extras would cost the base dd was less than the S&W. It took 3 days to get. most stores don't stock higher brands but can order from their distributor usually anything you want. And the price of a cheap barrel is about 200 dollars plus tools to install yourself or gunsmith fee.

That price list is nothing set in stone it's a quick reference of what I've seen things going for. Prices and availiblity do change. If a manufacturer sells a product be it bcm spikes or del ton. It either meets all the requirements not just the ones they feel like then they are good to go. If the price is 800 then that is even better. Buy once cry once.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

G.barnes, You are seriously misinformed on some things. #1- Military specifications are by far NOT that tight. ANY firearm that I own will be FAR beyond mil spec for me to shell out money. The ONLY mil spec I would shell out bucks for would be the mil spec of the Germans for the k98. You keep saying "mil spec" as if it is something good. You either didn't serve in the military or you never were issued an M4 because I am here to tell you, they aint that great! #2- several companies guarantee 1MOA accuracy or even better and some of those companies have offerings less than $1000 with that guarantee.

Old saying, "One must learn before one can teach"