AR optics

[checkmyswag]

Looking to put some sort of optic on an AR.

Removable carry handle, fixed front sight post.

I want to leave the front sight post so please don't suggest I switch it out.

I am looking at the following options.

Option 1. Typical red dot setup on flat top, co-witness w front sight

Question 1. How far can I expect to be able to shoot accurately with a red dot (Vortex Strikefire or similar)?
With iron sights, I'm a decent shot out to 300 meters.

Option 2. 3X or 4X scope (Nikon AR M223 or similar) on flat top, set for proper eye relief

Question 2. I read some guys saying the front sight disappears at 1.5X, others at 4X. What determines when the FSP disappears? The distance between the optic and the FSP? The objective size? It must be something more than simply the power of the scope in order to cause such a variety of answers.

Option 3. Mount a scope (3x9 or similar) on the carry handle.

Question 3. This seems to be met with near universal disdain. Are there any setups like this that do work well? I hear everyone talk about cheek weld being poor, but I looked at an ACOG carry handle mounted setup and I liked it.

I'm sure I'm missing some option I've considered but these seem to be the main ones. I know many of you will question what I want to do with the rifle, well that's what I'm trying to figure out, what I can set it up to do well and not try to make it fit something else.

Thanks for the input as always.

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

I really like my Aimpoint + 3x mag combo. Can use the mag if I want, swivel it to the side if I don't. I ended up with the Primary Arms mag and it works really well and the price is right

 

[Pete D.]

optics

ACOGs are wonderful. Not at all familiar with setting one up on a flat top but I had no problems using one on my carry handle. I suppose that effectiveness may be determined by your intended use.
Pete

 

[back40]

cheek weld and eye relief are going to be much less an issue with an acog. the 3-9x you mention is a different story. why would you mount a 3 or 4x on the flattop but not the 3-9? if you are bent on keeping the carry handle and using a compatible mount, try and decide for yourself. but don't say we didn't warn you

 

[Inebriated]

Leave irons until you know what you want the rifle to do.

If you're dying to put an optic on there, a receiver-mounted 1-4x would be my recommendation. Compact, and with the illuminated reticle (to my knowledge, all the 1-4x scopes out there have an illuminated reticle), you can get a reasonably quick target acquisition on the 1x, but still reach out and touch something (with 4x, an IPSC torso at 400+ yards is no problem).

Red dots tend to suck passed 150-200 yards, just because the dots are usually a 2-4 MOA, and at 200 yards, you're covering anywhere from 4"-8" of the target. And optics with more than 2x or 3x magnification are cumbersome for close-range. So a 1-4x with a real reticle, and illuminated circle (like the Vortex Viper PST) seems to be the best way to go, in my opinion. I'm probably going to put one on my "anything" AK.

 

[readyeddy]

3-9x on flat top

 

[madcratebuilder]

If you can shoot irons to 300yds then you well be able to shoot a red dot to 300yds. Here's a co-witness PA Micro.



Something like the Nikon 1-4 M223 well work fine with the fixed FSB. At 1X you well see a burr of the FSB, by 2X or higher it disappears.


Scopes on carry handles are hard on the cheek weld. It can be done but it's not the most practical thing to do.

The old Colt 3.5 and 4X scopes work pretty well as they are only 3/4 diameter and are right on top the handle, raises eye 1/2 inch.



I feel a full size scope is best suited for longer barreled AR's with no front sight.

 

[gotigers]

what is your budget and what are you going to do with it?

 

[henschman]

You should have about the same max effective range with a dot as you do with irons (but you will be quicker up close).

If you have a flat top, I don't know why you would even consider mounting an ACOG or any other optic on your carry handle. The whole point of the flat top was to remove the necessity of having to use that sub-optimal setup. You may like how it LOOKS to have an ACOG mounted that way, but if you try actually SHOOTING one that way, you will not like it if you have any sort of grasp on proper shooting techniques. Even if you're used to shooting with a jaw weld, there is absolutely no reason to do so when you can just mount the same optic on the flat top and have a good solid cheek weld instead. Jaw weld is something you do when it cannot be avoided. It's not something to be desired in its own right. Bottom line, it requires that your neck muscles be tensed while shooting, which introduces more wobble and makes you tired quicker. Bone good, muscle bad.

 

[checkmyswag]

gotigers, im looking to spend under $200.

I am starting to see that the carry handle mount is not popular and understand why. I suppose I like it as it leaves the iron sight setup as is. But if irons are not to be my primary sight system then i shouldn't mount an optic around that.

Did some looking at optics today.

I like the idea of a red dot but have never shot one.

On the other hand some magnification would be nice so long as that front post blur doesn't bother me on the lower settings.

I think id like to do a 1/3 cowitness if I go w the red dot and would then need a folding rear sight or one of them small fixed ones.

So considering the Vortex Strikefire for a red dot and a burris or nikon 1x4 for a magnified scope.

Watch your lane.

 

[gotigers]

Under $200, look at the weaver classic 1-3x. MidwayUSA has it for $169.99. Then add the promo code to get $10 off. I had this scope on a 223 AR for about a year. Now it is on my S&W 15-22. It is a great value. I was shooting 300 yards on 12 inch plates in 3 gun matches with it when it was on my 223.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183610/weaver-classic-v-series-rifle-scope-1-3x-20mm-dual-x-reticle-matte

Current promo code: 1091277 $10 off $100

Edit: Now i have a Nikon Monarch African on my 3 gun AR. It isn't to far out of your budget. It is an excellent scope.

I have an Eotech on anotherl. I like red dots for close shooting. We shoot at 18" plates at 400 yards with the red dots goofing around. A red dot can be good for 200-300 yards for practical purposes. The Strikefire should do fine. Also, look at Primary Arms for pricing.

When i had an FSB and a red dot, i prefered absolute cowitness. If you ever get rid of the FSB, your red dot will be at the same height. All of the sight charts will still be correct and a standard height mount will work.