AR optic decision

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checkmyswag

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I can't decide between a red dot with magnifier and a 1-4x scope.

I don't want to spend to a lot.

Looking at Primary Arms or Bushnell red dot and Primary Arms magnifier.

For a scope I've been considering the Nikon M223 1-4x and similar ones by Burris, Leupold and Weaver.

I am committed to keeping the fixed front sight post. I want to have quick shots up close but some magnification for farther targets.

Can you point me to some images of the FSP at the different magnifications? I know the FSP will be there, I just don't want it to be a mess or distracting.

Which direction did/would you go and why? Red dot w magnifier or 1-4x scope?
 
For 25 to 150 yards the red dot would be the best choice. Beyound 150 yard shots, you will want a scope. So what is your intended range?

Jim
 
jim243 said:
For 25 to 150 yards the red dot would be the best choice. Beyound 150 yard shots, you will want a scope. So what is your intended range?

Jim
Click to expand...

Yes.

Looking for something to do both well.

If it wasnt for my fixed front sight post I'd just go with the scope. I want to retain the fixed fsp though.

So I think I need to go with that because I scope can probably do more of what a red dot does up close than a red dot can do what a scope does far away.

So I either need to live w the front sight post shadow being there or mount the scope a little higher and get a cheek piece.

It would really help if I could just handle an AR with a fixed fsp and a 1-4x.
 
Are you primarily shooting less than 150yards? If so I suggest sticking with a good Red dot.

I've mounted a 3-9x40 scope on my AR with a fixed A2 front sight. The front sight is not visible even at the lowest magnification. now when I mount a red dot the front sight is definitely visible and will obstruct the red dot if its not aligned.

your other option with the red dot is to co-witness it with the front sight.
 
This was my solution to the same issue you have.

Jim

Both a red dot and scope

SAM_0730.gif

Red dot Walther PS-55 with cross hair retical

SAM_0732.jpg

3-9x40 MM compact scope on carry handle P-4 retical With BDC on scope 100,200,300,400,500 yards

SAM_0734.jpg


Nice thing about the carry handle, is you can still use your front sight with the scope mounted.
 
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Checkmyswag,

Give me 10 minutes and I will get you a picture of the FSP at 1x, 2x, 3x, and 4x magnification through a Burris MTac 1-4x scope. But before I get the pictures up, I will recommend the Burris MTac over a red-dot any day of the week. It is flat-out more versatile. At 1x, it acts as a red-dot, and it has the ability to go up to 4x; and the FSP is never in the way of making a shot.

2012-10-21222348.jpg

1x Magnification:
2012-10-21222635.jpg

2x Magnification:
2012-10-21222805.jpg

3x Magnification:
2012-10-21222901.jpg

4x Magnification:
2012-10-21222929.jpg


As you can see, the FSP is really only visible at 1x magnification (and the picture makes it look much more obtrusive than it really is). And even then, when you are focusing on your target (both eyes open), the reticle remains sharp and the FSP fades out so that pretty much all that you see are your target and the reticle.



And sorry it took me almost an hour....dropbox was being a pain again :cuss:
 
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allaroundhunter, thanks! That's service!

jim243, I have been considering doing just that, mounting the scope on my carry handle and the red dot on the flat top.

Advantage of doing that would be I wouldn't run a 1-4x scope, probably more of a 3x9.
 
I have AR's with red dots, 1-4X scope and a 3rd with a more powerful scope for longer range work. If I could only keep 1 it would be the one with the 1-4X scope. It is just as fast at close range as the red dot when on 1X, actually better in low light. It is easier to see the dot than the crosshairs in low light, but much easier to see the target with the scope because of the much better light transmission. On 4X is is pretty good at longer ranges.

On 1 or 2X you will see the front sight. I fail to understand why so many consider this a problem. You see the front sight when not using optics. It is no more of a distraction when you are.
 
On 1 or 2X you will see the front sight. I fail to understand why so many consider this a problem. You see the front sight when not using optics. It is no more of a distraction when you are.
Click to expand...

These are my thoughts exactly. And if I were to only keep one AR, it would have a 1-4x scope on it. It is the best of both worlds, and once you use one you can definitely tell how useful they are.
 
I've had an Eotech for 4 years, a weaver 1-3x or 2 years and a Nikon african 1-4x (Similar to the M223) for 1 year. I've had some other red dots.

The Eotech allows a much better sight picture. So, it would be much for less than 150 yards where quick target acquisition is needed. I have used it in 3 gun out to 200 yards with some success. My Eotech has been rock solid. For a civilian it is a great choice. If i were needing a red dot that my life depended on, i would want an always on battery that the Aimpoint gives you.

The 1-3x and 1-4x scopes will allow the same 2 eyes open shooting at closer targets while making 150 to 400 yard shots much easier. However the sight picture is a little busier making closer target acquisition a little slower.

I much prefer the Nikon African 1-4x with the German #4 reticle to a red dot of any kind for 3 gun. The very little time i lose with sight picture is not enough to worry about in 3 gun.

I don't care for tubular red dots. I shoot with both eyes open when using them, but i still get a little tunnel vision. It is just a personal preference. Aimpoints make a great red dot. The next red dot i buy will be for my 300blk SBR. It will be an Aimpoint T1.

If i had only one, it would be the Nikon African 1-4x.
 
Both setups the OP mentions will perform basically the same role... the red dot with magnifier does close quarters better but medium range worse, and the 1-4x scope is vice versa. It just depends on which role you want the emphasis on.

I would never mount any optic on the charging handle on an AR; especially not on a flat top. The whole reason for the flat top was to get away from that exceptionally awkward and limiting setup. Putting a detachable carry handle on your flat top and then mounting an optic on the handle is unnecessarily handicapping your rifle back to the 1950s vintage setup when the possibility of optics was not even considered. With a red dot it isn't quite so bad because they are parallax free and are generally used at close range, where perfect shooting form isn't really necessary to get hits. But putting your telescopic sight on the handle will mean that you can't get cheek weld, and generally puts the scope too far rearward for good eye relief, especially in prone. Being that your scope is the more precision oriented optic of the two, it doesn't make much sense to handicap it in that way when you could just buy a quick detach mount to put it at the proper height and position on your flat top, and still have it be removable if you want to put a red dot or something else on it.

FYI if you want a good red dot, I have the Burris TAC30, and would highly recommend it. It has great glass for the money, and a fairly helpful reticle that has true daylight visible illumination, unlike most others.
 
Just sighted in my Burris Tac 30. I couldn't be happier. To test for this thread, I left the front Mbus up and actually felt that it helped at 1-2 and was a nonissue at 3-4.

Better than an Eotech or Aimpoint? Don't know. Never shot one.
 
Just sighted in my Burris Tac 30. I couldn't be happier. To test for this thread, I left the front Mbus up and actually felt that it helped at 1-2 and was a nonissue at 3-4.

Better than an Eotech or Aimpoint? Don't know. Never shot one.
 
Guyfromohio, Thanks for the review on the Burris. Its a little pricey for me.

But the evaluation of the front sight through the scope was very helpful.
 
While both Aimpoint and Eotech are (I think most would agree) top of the line.
There are some other options.

I spoke with the folks at Primary Arms, and it seems that they will not have their "really popular" micro-dot and mount available until after the first of the year (if then). There is always the Bushnell TRS-25. Probably very good for the $$ spent. However, I wanted something spec-wise, closer to the Primary Arms micro-dot.

Brownells (and Gander) have the Vortex Strikefire red-dot, with 2X magnifier, plus mount, for $169.00.

No, it is not an Aimpoint or Eotech. However, from what I have read, for the money spent, it is pretty decent. I went ahead and ordered one a couple of days ago (it has not yet been delivered, though it has been shipped)

I'll let you know how it works out.
 
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