AR trigger question

[Glockdaddy]

Just picked up a Bushmaster V Match (used). If I want a lighter trigger pull is a spring mod the first step? I am new to the AR platform.

I know I could drop in an entire assy, like a two stage or something. But the current dingle stage is fine, just want it about 25% lighter.

Done lots if trigger work in semi pistols, revolvers and bolt actions. But the AR is new territory.


Thanks and MERRY CHRISTMAS THR!

 

[TonyAngel]

You could go with a lighter trigger spring kit from JP, but the springs that come in the Bushmaster two stage are already pretty light. If you go lighter, you might get some failures to fire. If you reload, use softer primers, like Federals.

I'd steer clear of doing a "trigger job" on the AR parts. Some do ok, some do ok for a little while. When they don't do ok, it could go full auto on you.

 

[jsimmons]

JP Enterprises makes a spring kit that will reduce the weight to about 3.5 pounds. You could alternatively send your FCG to Bill Springfield for massaging. You can also get the RRA 2-stage drop-in trigger.

 

[highorder]

I've been happy with Bill Springfield's work. The price is right and the turn-around is fast.

www.triggerwork.net

 

[Z-Michigan]

I haven't tried Springfield's trigger job but I've read too many reports of his work, as well as amateur work, going full-auto after less than 1000 rounds of use.

My 2 cents - if you want a really nice AR trigger, buy a high quality replacement trigger once and be done with it. Geissele if you want 2-stage, JP or perhaps a few others if you want single-stage. Buy quality once, cry once.

FWIW, I have an Armalite 2-stage "tactical trigger" and it's much crisper than a GI trigger, but not much lighter. I wrote a review that you can look up if you want to. Others have had good luck with the $60 Spike's Tactical "battle trigger" with nickel boron coating, and I just got one of those that I'll be trying out soon. But unless it's magic I'm probably going to put a Geissele SSA or SDC (Super Dynamic Combat, very new) on another build. I have briefly tried the Geissele SSA and DMR on other people's rifles and both were terrific. The SSA is the least expensive Geissele at $170, has extensive real combat use, appears to show no wear after 1000's of rounds, and is a lot cheaper than trying multiple trigger jobs while wasting ammo and having your rifle out of service as parts break or become dangerously light. (I have no qualms about the Armalite or Spike's options as well, but they aren't, and won't be, as light and crisp as a Geissele.)

 

[CHALK22]

I have two AR lowers with the JP spring kits, best $20 I have spent on the gun. They work very well. Trigger is lighter, but still very crisp.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I haven't tried Springfield's trigger job but I've read too many reports of his work, as well as amateur work, going full-auto after less than 1000 rounds of use.

My 2 cents - if you want a really nice AR trigger, buy a high quality replacement trigger once and be done with it. Geissele if you want 2-stage, JP or perhaps a few others if you want single-stage. Buy quality once, cry once.

FWIW, I have an Armalite 2-stage "tactical trigger" and it's much crisper than a GI trigger, but not much lighter. I wrote a review that you can look up if you want to. Others have had good luck with the $60 Spike's Tactical "battle trigger" with nickel boron coating, and I just got one of those that I'll be trying out soon. But unless it's magic I'm probably going to put a Geissele SSA or SDC (Super Dynamic Combat, very new) on another build. I have briefly tried the Geissele SSA and DMR on other people's rifles and both were terrific. The SSA is the least expensive Geissele at $170, has extensive real combat use, appears to show no wear after 1000's of rounds, and is a lot cheaper than trying multiple trigger jobs while wasting ammo and having your rifle out of service as parts break or become dangerously light. (I have no qualms about the Armalite or Spike's options as well, but they aren't, and won't be, as light and crisp as a Geissele.)

The ArmaLite two stage is user adjustable, no screws to come out of adjustment. ArmaLite has a tuning guide on their web site that gives you excellent tips on improving the trigger.

 

[paulo]

+ one on the RRA NM trigger

 

[Tirod]

A light trigger is problematic on the AR, it's the hammer spring that creates the pull weight. Too light causes ignition problems - with hard military primers. Handloads can use more sensitive primers.

The more the gun is tuned and modded to precision tuning, the more restricted it is to using range competition loads only. Everything has a tradeoff. It's the nature of a mechanical device, and the reason similar tools can be extremely different. Such as framing hammers not being good for trim and cabinet work, or a 3/4 socket set basically useless on skateboards and bikes.

I haven't heard much bad about American Gold match triggers, light and crisp. They actually don't look much different than the Wilson Tactical Trigger Unit, which has a 5 1/2# pull, is crisp, and will last 10,000 repetitions as one tested already.

Incremental steps add up, if a dedicated light trigger, range rifle is what is wanted, sure. Understand it will take away from field and defensive uses, those have different requirements. At the extreme, they are incompatible.

 

[CHALK22]

I guess I could add, that all my ammunition is handloads. I have never shot mil surplus out of it, and and only about 100 rds of factory stuff when I got it. But still, I have had no ignition problems, even with my spring kit in my Plum Crazy polymer lower with a poly hammer.

 

[Z-Michigan]

The ArmaLite two stage is user adjustable, no screws to come out of adjustment. ArmaLite has a tuning guide on their web site that gives you excellent tips on improving the trigger.

Yes - but what's your point? The adjustment range is only 6-8 ounces up or down, per Armalite. Pretty small. It's a good trigger but not a light match trigger. Armalite sells a hand-tuned (polished) match trigger based on the same design if that's what you want, but its price is up around that of a Geissele SSA which is worth serious consideration if you're willing to spend that much.

 

[Glockdaddy]

Thanks for all of the insight....

I think for starters I will most likely just use a JP reduced power trigger spring and see if I can be consistent with the Bushmaster single stage trigger. Then I will decide if an aftermarket trigger is needed.

Thanks for all of the good information. I realize that the round counts get pretty high on AR's because so many people run lots of ammo through them. The V Match will be shot mainly as a range target rifle....most of the time with target sights and 5 shot groups. I don't expect my round count to grow any too fast....

Another Question:

I don't hear too many good things about the Bushmaster two stage target trigger....and it seems to be available at a good price point. Any input on that?

 

[DBR]

If you want a very high quality trigger in terms of materials I suggest the JP Rifles trigger. I have used three of them. Using "tactical" spring sets you can get a very short reset single stage at about 4.5# that will fire any primer to a 3.5# two stage that might be a bit more fussy about ammo with the Yellow springs depending on how you set it up. Because of the quality of the materials it is safe if you are.

Bill Springfield is not someone I would use. What he is doing is dangerous in my informed opinion.

Geiselle triggers are also great if they have what you want. I have two SAA. I like them for their intended purpose.

I like the LWRC trigger hammer sets and the Spikes Tactical trigger hammer sets if you want a 6#+- smooth combat type trigger group. Notwithstanding all of the posts I have read regarding trigger pulls - I think most would be well served with a good 6# milspec type pull.

Very light trigger pulls are usually for some type of civilian activity. If under stress your main concern should be not shooting anyone you did not intended to.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I don't hear too many good things about the Bushmaster two stage target trigger....and it seems to be available at a good price point. Any input on that?

No one else uses them, and there's probably a reason.

 

[Tirod]

In all the better kits, a travel adjustment is a primary part. One thing it does is simply prevent having the creep and grit in the trigger pull because it's shortened to the minimum. If it cuts travel 80%, it cuts 80% of the potential sliding surface feel, too. Resets are quicker, too.

In the AR it basically holds the trigger bar higher - which can push it into the safety. You can only go so far, which is why some redesigned units move things around in their sub frame.

While a light trigger is nice on a range gun, a light spring isn't all the much a contributor. Plenty of tac shooters bring home gold, even with ten pound NY Glock or revolver triggers. Yes, their targets are bigger. In precision shooting, tho, travel and a clean break can certainly make improvements, IF the barrel is good enough to see a difference.

All the trigger can do is help preserve the inherent accuracy of the barrel and load, the gun can't be more accurate than that.

 

[jem375]

We have 3 JP triggers in our AR's, very good trigger for sure...

 

[Z-Michigan]

In all the better kits, a travel adjustment is a primary part.

For match use, yes. For military/LE use any adjustment is usually undesirable because it could come loose and cause a failure. So, for instance, Geissele's SSA is nonadjustable, while the DMR and match triggers are adjustable. Very few triggers are adjustable with no worries of stuff coming loose - Armalite's is one, but as I mentioned the adjustment range, per Armalite, is only 6-8 ounces up and down, which isn't much when you're starting with a 6+ lb trigger pull.

 

[Glockdaddy]

JP spring kit is in....

Installed the kit tonight, just before the Winter Classic. Pens lost!!

Chalk22 and JSimmons were right....the JP spring kit really does make for a nice trigger pull. The Bushy trigger in mine is a single stage, no creep, no over travel....just really firm But with this kit the pull really feels sweet! It is crisp and predictable. (I also polished the contact surfaces with a Dremel, just to make them smooth.)

So as soon as the balance of the sight parts I ordered come in later this week I will finish the mods and get it to the range to let you know how it shoots.

Thanks everyone for your help....this $9.95 spring kit may be the ticket!

 

[Quentin]

A buddy has a Bushmaster that has a good milspec trigger. No creep, no over travel as you said GD. And the few others I've tested had decent triggers, better than the average AR. I'm impressed with the Bushy triggers I've tried.

Anyway it sounds like your lighter spring is the economical way to go (as long as the hammer strike is enough).