AR upper 7.62x39-200 cheap rounds-w/o a problem: almost!

[Sky]

Like many I have always heard stories about the AR uppers chambered in 7.62x39 having all kinds of problems from mags to you name it! But bottom line was "good luck if you purchase one". Well I did and here is my story.

I purchased a Model 1 upper from a company with the same name http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=309 located in North Texas. They were not the cheapest but I talked to one of the big boys (maybe the owner? via phone) who answered my questions and was knowledgeable for he was a shooter of these uppers himself.

I ordered on a Monday and received the Upper on Friday. +1
The upper came well packaged and blemish free +1
They are located in Texas so I had to pay taxes. - sucks
I mounted the upper on a Doublestar lower I had purchased for this upper and other things. The fit is perfect and I doubt I could have gotten a better fit with another choice.

I have put over 1500 rounds on the lower with different calibers this last coupe of days. Poor thing has not gotten to shoot a 5.56 yet??

Having a few com block rifles already chambered in 7.62x39 I had made my mind up I like the caliber and weighty lead it throws.

I had ordered some Armalite mags for the upper and Model 1 sent me 2 mags (ordered them). In total I have 5 thirty round mags and 4 ten round mags.

I had loaded the mags with some Goldenbear FMJ and some Tula 154gr soft point. Figured if the upper were going to give me any problems it would show up with the Tula. Yes I know many would have gotten the best of the best to try out a new weapon but I tend to go the other way and work my way up. Also the 154gr soft point is a heavy knock a ford pick-up on it's side kinda round in this caliber. Noticeable recoil increase also....IMO

I used all the mags and fired 200 rounds with this ammo mix. I had two FTFs due to light primer strikes; all with the Tula. Not really a light strike for the primers were struck deeply but the round did not go off. Cleared the round and reinserted the misfire back in the mag and BOOM it worked the second time around.

The mags fit tight in the mag well; they fed w/o a problem. Everything worked as it was supposed to. The Tula ammo is OK for my type of pig killing ( usually around 100 yards or closer) but it is not a very consistent MOA type round. The upper did give me 3 shots touching at 50 yards which I thought was pretty good considering.

I can hit a 325 yards 14" plate with my SKS and feel confident when using Yugo 7.62x39 brass cased corrosive ammo. The AR in 5.56 gets there with out a problem also; very consistent.

The Tula is a joke at that range! You might have a couple of rounds close to your aim point then the next thing you know a round will end up 40 or 60 yards short. Just my experience with the stuff using different weapon platforms. But like I said before it is a deadly round up close and personal. Wonder if they measure their powder by volume or by weight?

I do not know if the manufactures have finally figured out how to make the AR upper chambered in 7.62x39 or I just got lucky....For now I am very pleased with what I have.

P.S. The Model 1 mags were identical to the Armalite mags.

 

[jehicks87]

Nice review. As I told you in another thread, I was/am skeptical of the AR platform in general, and having several crap out in 5.56 I would have assumed they'd choke themselves in no time shooting x39. Suppose I was wr... wr... wroooo... ah, to hell with it. You got lucky is all! Keep us up to date when you add another zero.

 

[Sky]

hahahaha Yes I am lucky in so many ways. Old and yet everything still seems to work "when I need it to" most of the time...

I have ARs that to some gurus are no better than an empty soup can (still useful for heating water if you got fire?) yet they have always fulfilled their purpose when needed.

Well I did miss a piggy when I had not chambered a round after a mag change. Scared me thought I was getting alzheimer's or had a slight stroke??!!!!! Finally chalked it up to "STUFF HAPPENS"!

I do shoot, inspect, and clean usually within a day or so of using a weapon; I never know if it will sit in a safe for an extended time. Just finished cleaning 5 from yesterday.

One of the tightest shooting ARs I have has not been fired in at least 6 months simply because all the stuff I have been doing has been in the 150 yard or less range. That AR is loaded in the safe and I expect if I pull it out it will go bang for the entire mag because it always has.

Promise if I start having problems with the new upper I will post and squeal like a stuck Piggy or an irate poster ranting person just because "STUFF HAPPENS"!

 

[Sky]

I have now put over 500 rounds through the upper mostly due to changing optics and finally deciding on the Eotech for this weapon. Out of the first two hundred rounds with two lite primer strikes and the next 500 rounds with 4 lite primer strikes on the Tula I know it is the ammo and their hard primers.

I still like the soft nose 154gr for it's ability to knock a pig off it's feet and put and end to the argument right there right then! Just ordered some more of the ammo but golly it is dirty and it is like throwing rocks when outside 200 yards. I have so many favorite ARs I am like a butterfly who goes from one flower (AR) to another but as of late the model 1 I have has given me the sweet nectar of satisfaction!.

 

[desidog]

I love it when a plan comes together.

I've had a similarly good experience with my two 7.62x39 AR's, both with M1S barrels and bcg's... only issue I've had is a couple FTFs w/ Wolf's hard primers.

 

[M1key]

Just ordered the parts to build an X39 myself. Glad things are working right.

M

 

[Sky]

Over the years I had read so many negative things about the AR in 7.62x39 and the mags and etc etc that I just did the SKS and AK thing not wanting problems. I guess that is good because I ended up with a nice AK and a couple of SKSs.

As I said someplace else they might have been problematic in the past but I have not had any problems with this set up as of yet. Let me know how your new uppers work for you.

 

[TonyAngel]

In my experience, the AR is a very reliable platform, assuming that you don't build a rifle out of the ablsolute cheapest parts that you can find.

I really don't know what jehicks means by having several "crap out." That could mean a lot of different things, ranging from parts starting to fall off of the rifle, to the rifle not running right due to lack of maintenance.

My very first AR ever was a Colt in 7.62. It was a good shooter. 7.62X39 ARs usually are good shooters. The big downfall was the lack of magazines that work. If you can get mags that work, more power to ya.

Sky, I've gotta tell ya, your post has me thinking. There is still some very cheap 7.62 to be found around the net. Even cheaper than their 5.56 counterparts. I also believe that I have an upper laying around here somewhere.

 

[Sky]

Tony thanks but if you have any problems I do not want to hear it from you!!! My feelings really got hurt when your experience with the Vortex was less than perfect!!! Also if you try the Tula 154gr soft nose it kicks/recoil is like a 30.06 almost kinda sorta IMO.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

my bushmaster 762x39 runs flawlussly if i use c products mags with it and that includes many many rounds of plain old wolf black box.

 

[wnycollector]

I plan on picking up a Del-ton 7.62x39 upper when they have their annual 15% off Black Friday sale.

 

[TonyAngel]

Sky, yeah man. That Vortex was just determined to rub me wrong. I finally gave up and sold it to a friend of mine and bought another Nightforce. Maybe it was just me resisting where I wanted to be in the first place.

Glad to hear that the C-Products mags are working well. I remember when I first got the email about them from 44mag.com (I believe it was). I had the thought that I'd build a 7.62X39 upper, but then forgot all about it.

 

[wally]

I had loaded the mags with some Goldenbear FMJ and some Tula 154gr soft point. Figured if the upper were going to give me any problems it would show up with the Tula.

My AR 7.62x39 upper only has problems with HP ammo since I replaced the C-Products mag springs with real AK mag springs. Try some Wolf HP rounds, if you don't have problems you've got a winner!

The Armalite 30 round mags look like the C-Products mags, if they put it better springs than C-Products did, they should work.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I replaced mine with wolf ak extra power springs too.

 

[6x6pinz]

very promising thread. I have also steered away from the X39 upper for the mentioned reasons. The only one I have seen in person did not work well enough to make me want to pick one up. I never really noticed what type of mags he was using so I don't know if it was a mag related issue or firearm. It has been a few years so I don't recall any of the specifics of the rifle.

 

[M1key]

Okay...

Model 1 parts came in: 20 inch barrel, M1S bolt, steel gas block, 1/2x36 flash hider, "enhanced" firing pin, 3 mags (ASC, 10 and 30s). Buttoned it all up after carefully aligning barrel/block ports and (Colt) gas tube. Installed bolt into DD carrier/DD flat-top upper receiver, free floated...over a BM lower with RRA 2-stage trigger.

Mounted a Leupold 1-4x, grabbed several boxes of ammo: Golden Tiger, WWB and Fiocchi FMJ, Hornady Steel Vmax, and some handloads and ran off to the range....

Began having cycling issues right off the bat. Would eject cases 10 feet or so, cock the hammer, but would not load the next round. This with GT, WWB, and Hornady...also would not lock back on last shot.

Mags seemed to work, but couldn't really tell since gun wasn't cycling properly. Guy next to me noted that the bolt was not coming back all the way and (we) decided that I was undergassed.

Went home to call M1S (still awaiting call-back), rechecked alignment of gas system, then pulled it apart to check for obstructions and measure holes. Blew through the tube okay, but it seems the barrel port is .15" and the gas block port is .125"...not sure if this matters. No indication of gas leak or "blow-by".

Question, did anyone else have this problem and did you check port dimensions?

Any suggestions as to what else I might try before committing to opening up the gas block a bit?

Thx

M

 

[Sky]

Good ghosh!! I have not had any problems at all! Let me know what Model 1 says please even P.M. me....I only talked to them during the purchase process of my upper but when I called they answered the first call.

What a crock!

I had asked that my upper be test fired before shipping, if I remember right ( I usually do), but I think that is what they do anyway? Sorry man.....

 

[M1key]

Well, technical support (she) did take my call, made a few suggestions like, "Did I have the enhanced firing pin?" Then said she'd refer the problem to someone else and they'd get back with me.

I'm thinking maybe I should have gone with the 16 inch carbine length...

M

 

[Sky]

Mine is 16" but if they put the thing together right it should work...Period! Really!

 

[M1key]

Success!

Well, I opened up the gas block port to ~.14

ran 20 rounds of Golden Tiger

hooray! 20 rounds cycled fine.

Will run it harder tomorrow at the range..

No razzing about the camo tape please.

M

 

[Sky]

barrel port is .15" and the gas block port is .125"...not sure if this matters. No indication of gas leak or "blow-by".

Well, I opened up the gas block port to ~.14

So the gas port was undersized?? Regardless Still a crock and why did they not catch it? Did you ask to see if it had been test fired? Oh nice camo tape!

 

[M1key]

I don't know what the spec is for the gas block, but opening it up seems to have fixed the problem. I'll try a variety of ammo tomorrow to ensure reliable functioning.

M

 

[~Abstract~]

Update?

I'm seriously considering getting one of these uppers.

 

[desidog]

M1key, I'd be interested to hear which make/model gas block was at issue too.

I removed the low-pro M1S gasblock from my 16" M1S bbl, and put on a Yankee Hill flip-up FSB, the one with 1913 rail below. Initially it was under-gased, since i guess that FSB was designed with a hand guard cap in mind. I used a feeler-gage as a spacer, and it's been running fine ever since.

 

[M1key]

Well, it seems I was a bit premature. The gas block really wasn't the problem. Believe it or not, a VENTED upper buttstock screw fixed the problem. I had the good fortune to shoot next to a guy that had to trouble-shoot his and he found the solid screw slowed down the recoil impulse just enough to cause the bolt to short-stroke.

I replaced the solid one with a vented...VOILA. Runs like a champ with Golden Tiger and Wolf MC. Accurate too. I did go with an enhanced (longer) firing pin, a heavier hammer spring, and opened up the gas block port a teensy bit more just for good measure.

Model 1 Sales technicians didn't have any suggestions for me and had never heard of the "vented screw" remedy. They kept telling me their "lead" tech was out and took my number. I called twice but never got the promised return call.

Oh well. I am happy with the rifle now. I would never have guessed the problem. Maybe it doesn't occur with the shorter carbine-length gas systems...


M