AR upper in 5.45x39mm

[MisterPX]

First of all, it's called corrosive ammo for a reason. SHoulda poured some water on his AK when he got done shooting.

Anyhow, Alex. Arms had 5.45 AR's, but wouldn't sell just the upper. SOmebody on ar15.com was getting a 5.45 uppper rolling though.

 

[MudPuppy]

anyone know the twist on the AK-74 and clones in 5.45x39?

I think it is pretty fast, long bullet and all. 1:6 sounds right, but I think it may differ too?

 

[stubbicatt]

no need to design an AR-compatible magazine for it, just use the AK-74 mags that are dirt friggin cheap

The AK magazines won't work in an AR lower. They have an entirely different geometry and lock in just like the '47 mags do, by "rocking" them into seated position. There is no provision for a mag release cutout like on the AR series of magazines.

For the record, I have fired many many thousands of rounds of corrosively primed AK74 ammo through my rifles, and I clean them as soon as I get home. That rusty hulk up there was exposed to far more moisture than one would ordinarily receive, and it doesn't appear to have been cleaned. The parts in that rifle have no evidence of having been cleaned, the receiver is caked with firing residue. No self respecting rifleman would do that to a rifle. There is no evidence of lube on any of the reciprocating parts. I suspect VERY STRONGLY that the piece depicted above was horribly abused, perhaps left buried in someone's garden or something during spring rainy season.

If you clean up properly after shooting corrosively primed ammo, you will have no issues in an AK like that. None of my rifles has rusted, and neither will yours if you clean it.

The AR with its long gas tube, which is difficult at best to get clean, may have different issues, as I know of no reliable method to remove residue from a gas tube like that.

I suspect that the standard AR magazines would come close to feeding the 5.45, as many people convert 5.45 AK mags to feed 5.56 by changing out the follower. It must be very nearly a good fit.

That said, the 5.45 in its military loading is a better round than is the 5.56, both for penetration and wounding properties. It doesn't rely upon velocity to do its thing as does the 5.56.

In all, if you really want to shoot 5.45, I'd just purchase an AK and enjoy it, rather than an AR upper receiver.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Not to mention that all the surplus is the PS machined steel ogive core. It punches through things SS109 wont.

Where I work we do pretty frequent car shoots, and occasionally live fire on body armor materials, and I've never seen 5.45x39 perform much better than M855. Statistically speaking the sample size is too small to prove the point, but from what I've seen penetration is about the same between the two for initial barrier and worse for 5.45 when a second barrier like the far side of a car is involved (the bullet profile being larger and requiring more energy to go through things in a keyholing scenario).

 

[DMK]

unless you plan on using wolf, golden tiger, barnual, here's a little taste of what CORROSIVE surplus 5.45mm can do to your DIRECT IMPINGEMENT 5.45 upper.

That's a little taste of what neglect will do to your weapon. Notice the amount of carbon inside the receiver.

There was nothing wrong with the ammo. It was all on the operator.

 

[BigG]

Typically, any caliber conversion of the AR15xx is limited by the magazine well. There is no percentage (imho) in putting a new bbl on that can't be fed thru a standard Colt magazine.

 

[Joe Demko]

BigG is right. If you can rebarrel it and then feed it from the standard magazine, you might have something worthwhile. When you have to start fiddle-farting around with the lower and/or modifying magazines and such, the conversion starts to become increasingly less worthwhile.
For this particular conversion, the only thing that makes it desirable is the present relatively low price for the 5.45 ammo.
I clearly remember not too many years ago when SGN had somebody selling bolt action East German 5.45mm "sniper" rifles that had supposedly been used along the Berlin Wall. These were extremely high quality rifles that they were nearly giving away because there was no domestic supply of 5.45mm and there was none imported because the 5.45mm AK clones hadn't yet hit the market. There is still no domestic source of 5.45mm ammo. Unless you stockpile a bunch of it now, you are one executive order away from your 5.45mm upper being as desirable now as those bolt guns were then.

 

[BigG]

SGN had somebody selling bolt action East German 5.45mm "sniper" rifles that had supposedly been used along the Berlin Wall. These were extremely high quality rifles that they were nearly giving away because there was no domestic supply of 5.45mm and there was none imported because the 5.45mm AK clones hadn't yet hit the market. There is still no domestic source of 5.45mm ammo.

Those guns were actually Steyr Mannlicher rifles, which are about 200% better quality than most anything domestically produced (I say to my shame as an American). I would hunt one of those up if I wanted a 5.45mm rifle. And lay in a lifetime supply of ammo, as Joe Demko mentions.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

You can use regular AR mags and the regular follower just fine for feeding. You might lose the last one or two rounds of capacity.

I just loaded a 20 rounder with 15 roudns of 5.45x39 and inserted it into an M4, i was able to hand cycle the rounds and they all striped and fed just fine. I let the bolt slam a little to hard on one and it got stuck, sticking out of the chamber way too far for the bolt to close on it (about .5 cm) and had to tap it out from the front.

The normal 5.56 bolt may be able to be used. i could get the bolt/extractor to clip onto the polish 5.45's but they have a much thinner and deeper chamfered case head. The russian and bulgarian ones don't.

At most it would take a little tiny bit of opening up the bolt face, and a diffrent chamber. And im not sure how close the gas system would be, but on the AK's in 5.45 and 5.56 they are exactly the same in terms of pistons and port sizes on the ones i have, if that means anything. The 5.56 ak seems to over-operate coparing it to the 5.45 ones i have.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

OK, i just took some pictures and put them on a page with the two cartridges in comparison. For those who may not be familar with the commie stuff.

Its just four pictures and angelfire wont let the pictures show up when posted on here, so here they are:

http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/951951951/lsah/556545/556vs545.html

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Anyone try to snap a 5.45 into their AR bolt face to see how close it is? Im trying to figure if mine is just a little loose, as it can be perswaded under the extractor on a component bolt.

 

[Kalashnikov]

What about the most important factor? Is there a reloadable source of ammo for the 5.45 yet?

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

reloadable? nope. not that i know of anyway.

Hasnt kept me or the soviet army from shooting more of it than any other caliber for the past 3 or 4 years though.

but seriously, i remember somebody on here saying they reloaded for it quite frequently, and with resized SS109 and m193's
but i really dont think thats the point of wanting an upper in 5.45x39, so that you can reload for it...

 

[Kalashnikov]

No, but I have this wild hair to take the 5.45 and make it into what I want. Namely something that can dethrone the .223 as a varmint cartridge. I think that with the right components it can be done, especially in an AR platform. I'll be asking MGI if they make one.