AFAIK some (most?) aftermarket barrels can be ordered with tight "unfinished" headspacing. Finalizing the job with a reamer and a go-gauge isn't exactly rocket science and even a local gunsmith shouldn't charge you more than $50 for it. On the other hand it might still be a good idea to spend a bit more and choose Krieger, Lilja, Shilen, Lothar-Walther or the like for better accuracy potential.
AR10 Build? My experience; just buy the complete rifle.
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That's the biggest draw to me too.
How is buying a complete rifle that prolly cost more than my build in the first place and then buying a 300-400 dollar barrel and having all the tools an knowledge to change a barrel (which are the same tools and knowledge to assemble an upper) economic?
These guys will build you about any barrel you want, they are very reasonable and my 24" 243 barrel is awesome sub MOA right off the bat with reloads I loaded 30 years ago even including a shooter induced flier.
http://www.x-caliber.net/
You probably overlooked my speculation of not calculating any value to one's own labor, time and effort. That can vary from simply buying what you want to Khyber Pass method of building guns from bar stock with hand tools, in the opposite extremes of the scale. A consideration might also be the resale value of a LNIB barrel once it has been removed from a new rifle if recovering all possible unnecessary costs is a priority.
With a complete, fully functioning rifle you already have all the right parts at hand with no compatibility issues, plus about an hour rebarreling an AR even if you have to headspace it too. 15 minutes if you don't. Comparing these facts to the OP's not-so-uncommon horror story, I can only second his advice: if you want a gun, buy a gun and be done with it. Modifications like rebarreling are often a much smaller headache than assembling one from parts.
Of course anyone can choose to do whatever he wants.
someguy2800
Member
Saying that having to put work into assembling your own rifle is a detraction is like saying woodworking would be great if not for all cutting and sanding. Many people such as myself derive a great deal of enjoyment fiddling and building on things. The only reason I have an AR was because I could put one together from parts. I probably invested a couple thousand hours into building my racecar and even after I finished it I still look forward to the many projects I have in mind to do with to it. The hobby to me is in building things.
Precisely why I already suggested earlier that if you do, you'll be best off thinking of it as a spare-time hobby in itself if that's your thing.
I agree.
I have a friend that decided to build an AR-10 from parts back in the early 1980's when things were much more variable than they are today. The long and short of it is that he was never satisfied with the rifle and ultimately sold it. But, based on what he learned from that "failed" build, he started another and was successful and with each subsequent build his rifles got better.
Today, he's off at the end of a dirt road somewhere in North-Central Arkansas living a not-quite off-the-grid existence. He builds AR-10s to order. They are real works of art. But he has an artistic temperament. He's not on the web and he doesn't do mail order. To get one of his AR-10's you have to visit him in person. He then decides whether he wants to build you a rifle. And then you have to negotiate the payment. He doesn't take money; its entirely a barter transaction. I understand eccentric, but I'm surprised anyone would put up with all that - but they do. And enough of them do it to keep him in business making maybe a couple dozen rifles a year.
Quite right.
If I counted the value of my time (at my current billing rate), a 50 round batch of 9mm would have material and labor content of about $125.
I shudder to think what I would have tied up in an AR-15 or AR-10 build after I accounted for the time invested in sourcing the parts as well as performing the labor and any troubleshooting.
I do these things not to save money, but to stay sane enough to go to work. So, even if I'm trading my reloading time for less than what a child laborer chained to a sewing machine in Bangladesh is earning, it's still "worth it" to me.
Precisely!
That's why I like to work wood the same way Pringles makes potato chips; grind the wood down to nearly the consistency of talcum powder, mix in natural lignin (or epoxy if it needs to be handled extensively) and force it into an injection mold or extruder.
No muss, no fuss, no sawdust, no measuring, no cutting; just precise, identical pieces every time.
someguy2800
Member
Just like our forefathers did, nothing like a piece of finely crafted particle board
I found it to be a very simple and straight forward process to build my AR308 from scratch. I settled on the DPMS pattern and went from there. Assembly was pretty simple as is any AR pattern rifle. The project got sidelined due to life but all I need is a BCG and sights or optics and I'm good to go. Oh and I build mine from an 80% lower too...
I think a lot of us have been in this situation.
In fact, over the years I have thought about putting together an AR-10 type rifle but I didn't because I have read too many stories like this one. Part of the problem for me is that I can't just use whatever parts appeal to me. Things arn't as interchangable as they are on a 5.56 AR.
OK, my money pit story:
I read an article once, years ago, about Chinese M-14 clone rifles. According to the article, pretty much everything on the rifle is junk. BUT, the receiver itself is of superb quality. According to the article, better than Springfield Armory and they actually went so far as to say they were better than USGI M-14 receivers. Ironically, not long after I read the article, a buddy called me and said someone he knows is going through a divorce and is selling all his guns. I said, what's he got and among the stuff was a Chinese M14 clone.......for $75. So I bought it.
Year after year, the thing sat around but every time I went to a gun show, I would buy some USGI part for the eventual build. Finally a couple years ago, I decided this thing has sat around here long enough and I sent the rifle and all the parts to a gunsmith.
Well........there were a lot of parts I didn't have. I knew there were some, but they add up fast; especially when you want real USGI M14 parts. Then they tell me the barrel I bought wasn't new: there was nothing wrong with it but it was a used barrel (I thought it was new), so I figured: I am this deep into it so give me a new barrel.
Long story even longer, it cost me less than a boutique M14 clone rifle, but not by much. Plus, I got it back and have never even fired it. Over the period of a decade, I totally lost interest in it.
In fact, over the years I have thought about putting together an AR-10 type rifle but I didn't because I have read too many stories like this one. Part of the problem for me is that I can't just use whatever parts appeal to me. Things arn't as interchangable as they are on a 5.56 AR.
OK, my money pit story:
I read an article once, years ago, about Chinese M-14 clone rifles. According to the article, pretty much everything on the rifle is junk. BUT, the receiver itself is of superb quality. According to the article, better than Springfield Armory and they actually went so far as to say they were better than USGI M-14 receivers. Ironically, not long after I read the article, a buddy called me and said someone he knows is going through a divorce and is selling all his guns. I said, what's he got and among the stuff was a Chinese M14 clone.......for $75. So I bought it.
Year after year, the thing sat around but every time I went to a gun show, I would buy some USGI part for the eventual build. Finally a couple years ago, I decided this thing has sat around here long enough and I sent the rifle and all the parts to a gunsmith.
Well........there were a lot of parts I didn't have. I knew there were some, but they add up fast; especially when you want real USGI M14 parts. Then they tell me the barrel I bought wasn't new: there was nothing wrong with it but it was a used barrel (I thought it was new), so I figured: I am this deep into it so give me a new barrel.
Long story even longer, it cost me less than a boutique M14 clone rifle, but not by much. Plus, I got it back and have never even fired it. Over the period of a decade, I totally lost interest in it.
Ok. Sorry it took me so long. 2 jobs and clinicals. Had to put this on the back burner for a bit. Remember I shopped for these deals.
Alexandria Pro Fab 20” upper~$350
Upgraded Aero Nitride BCG~$50 (after selling the old one)
PSA lower parts kit-$60
Tennessee Valley Hybrid lower-$40
FatBoy 6 pos buffer kit-$20
MagPul furniture-$40
MagPul flip up sights-$40
Vortex Sparc-$30 (used).
Guess I was either wrong, or I forgot something.... I’m showing $630. Anyways....here’s the finished product. Not that it really matters. It looks like an AR.
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berettaprofessor
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Well; an interim update. To get the right handguard, I just ordered the Stag AR10 handguard, MLOK 13.5", which is completely fabulous and incredibly lightweight. It comes, however, with a massively thick barrel nut which has grooves to fit the gas tube, so it has to be perfectly shimmed to line up right under the proper torque. So, it came with 5 shims. 0.010", 0.050, 0.001, 0.001, and 0.001. I needed 0.009" to make it fit.
Contacted the company and expected another wait, but got around it by sanding down the 0.010" a smidge. Now the barrel is on, but the headspace/extractor removal press has gotten lost in the mail somewhere between UPS and USPS.
But I'm learning alot.
Contacted the company and expected another wait, but got around it by sanding down the 0.010" a smidge. Now the barrel is on, but the headspace/extractor removal press has gotten lost in the mail somewhere between UPS and USPS. But I'm learning alot.
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berettaprofessor
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Finished the build, now complete with the Stag AR10 handguard! Headspace checked out perfect. I've got to get a couple of small MLOK rails yet so that I can put a bipod on when desired, and a foregrip. I'll try to post some better pictures later.
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berettaprofessor
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Finally...success. Tried a few different mags; AR stoner steel 5 round wouldn’t lock in. Bushmaster steel 5 round did, but too tight; mag wouldn’t drop free and the same second round feeding malfunction occurs. Finally tried a 25 round PMag...which worked and fed semi-auto with Federal 150 soft point Powershok. At least I’ve got one combo that works. Interesting that two 10 round PMags didn’t work, even fully loaded.
Still have the buffer spring that bfoosh suggested on order (backordered). But right now I won’t order the heavier buffer yet. I’ll put 50-75 rounds or so through it before I try other mags again. Maybe the answer is simply a few break-in rounds. I’m up to 30 right now.
Still have the buffer spring that bfoosh suggested on order (backordered). But right now I won’t order the heavier buffer yet. I’ll put 50-75 rounds or so through it before I try other mags again. Maybe the answer is simply a few break-in rounds. I’m up to 30 right now.
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berettaprofessor
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Also, just saw that Stag put their LH 308 complete rifles with the same MLOK hand guard on sale for $1150 down from $1650. That’s a little under what I put into it...so all my “labor” is for not.
RH AR10s are down to $1099 if anyone cares.
That’s a little under what I put into it...so all my “labor” is for not. RH AR10s are down to $1099 if anyone cares.
1948CJ2A
Member
PSA had their complete lowers on sale for $160 earlier this week and their mid-length 18" 308 complete uppers for $299. I picked up both parts (Gen2). That's a heckuva AR-10 deal for the $. I'll post back when I get it all together and checked-out.
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