AR10: RRA vs Armalite

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Caliper_Mi

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So, I've finally decided it's time to add an AR10 to my collection. I've got it narrowed down to either a RRA Standard A4 with iron sights and quad rail or an Armalite A4 National Match. If I went with the Armalite, I'd probably build it with Armalites new "A" lower to take Pmags instead of Armalites overpriced ones.

I'm still looking around for an example of each to fondle, but wondering if anyone here had experience with either of these rifles? Accuracy? Reliability? I like that RRA has ambi mag and bolt release controls. I'd be using the rifle mostly for for traditional three position shooting with a sling.
 
I think the new ArmaLite AR-10A is the better choice. This type of magazine is based on the original AR-10 and works with KAC and DPMS AR style 7.62x51 rifles.
 
I have an armalite. It is top notch. The rock river might be a little lighter than the nm I don't know if you are planning on toting it
 
I'd probably build it with Armalites new "A" lower to take Pmags instead of Armalites overpriced ones.

Both the upper and lower are different for the SR-25 magazine rifle.

The AR-10B mags are about 8-10 bucks more than Pmags and less than KAC or LMT 7.62 AR mags.
 
love my armalite, love the expensive magazines too.

I don't choose a rifle of this quality and concern myself with ability to get cheap mags. With that said, the steel follower rides up as if on ball bearings, worth every penny.

The rifle is perfect right out of the box, handle a few and see for yourself ;)
 
I'm with others here that the extra $10-$15 for the Armalite 10B mags is not only insignificant, but worth it. The steel Gen II mags run flawlessly, and you have capacity options of 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 rounds.

The 10B can also still use Gen I modified M14 mags, though they won't engage the BHO. In fact, since the Gen I follower won't reliably engage the Gen II BHO anyway, you just skip the follower kit. Now you can take a $10 M1A mag, knock the original catch tab off and dremel a new hole for the AR-10 catch and you have dirt cheap mags for the range.

Yeah, it'd be nice if magpul would make Armalite pattern mags, but with the introduction of the AR10A, it ain't gonna happen. And that's fine. The 10A is the choice for people who prefer $20, 20-round mags to $35, 25 round mags. I like the 25s. If only a 5 round increase, they look better, since they extend below the grip:

101_1427.jpg
 
I don't choose a rifle of this quality and concern myself with ability to get cheap mags. With that said, the steel follower rides up as if on ball bearings, worth every penny.

Guess I hadn't thought of it that way and a very good point.

Along those lines, does anyone have experience with how the RRA's do in the mag department? I've read Armalites reasoning that they posted some time back about why Armalite didn't go with FAL mags, curious if their concerns are more theoretical or actual.
 
I've read Armalites reasoning that they posted some time back about why Armalite didn't go with FAL mags

FAL mags don't really have feed lips.

The reason they chose M14 pattern is because the rifle came back during the AWB; M14 mags are cheap, plentiful and easily modified to fit the AR-10 (seriously: A hammer, small chisel, Dremel and 15 minutes is all that's needed). There was a huge supply of 20 round mags available this way, so people could have the standard capacity mags during those dark years.

Honestly, it's kind of a mystery why DPMS and the others didn't go with the Armalite modified M14 pattern. The gen I mags had some issues due to the BHO catch dragging on the mag body under spring pressure, but the Gen II mags are basically just scaled up AR-15 mags and run flawlessly.

ETA

Here's the article:

Industry » ArmaLite » FAQ; Why ArmaLite doesn't use the FAL magazine (Page 1)
0 ArmaLite :: 1/13/2006 6:02:35 PM EST

We've published this FAQ several times over the past decade as customers ask why we don't use a cheaper magazine. Here's an update based on the latest inquiry.

Q: Why doesn’t the AR-10 use FAL Magazines? They’re cheap.

A: The FAL magazine suffers from technical weaknesses when applied to the AR-10.

Normally, a rifle magazine should be built to suit the rifle mechanism instead of the rifle mechanism being built to match the magazine. At the time the AR-10 was designed, however, the Assault Weapon Ban was in effect and ArmaLite could not produce new magazines for commercial customers. If 20 round magazines were to be available to its customers, ArmaLite needed to use a magazine that was already in existence and could be used intact, or with slight changes. Four magazines were considered:

M-14 (which was derived from an earlier government test magazine)
G-3
Early ArmaLite AR-10 magazine
FAL

The G-3 and early AR-10 magazines weren’t easily available at the time, so were written off early. The logical choices came down to either the plentiful M-14 or FAL magazines.

Mark Westrom was attracted to the low price and easy availability of the FAL magazine, and studied it and others thoroughly. The FAL magazine is very effective in FAL rifles. Unfortunately, it suffers a number of characteristics which make it very much less suitable for use in an AR-10.

The FAL magazine is not a stand-alone feed device. It merely contains cartridges and presents them to the feed lips in the rifle. The actual, functional feed lips are machined into the upper receiver. The feed lips protect the magazine’s lips from damage. The machined lips are in close alignment with the chamber and tolerate poor quality magazines. Because the AR-10 requires the magazine lips to feed, the FAL magazine was not determined to be tough enough for an AR-10.

Next, studying of the movement of the cartridge during feeding revealed that the M-14 magazine closely matched feeding from the early ArmaLite 10 magazines, and was thus very suitable to feeding up the barrel extension of the AR-10.

The feed from a FAL magazine was very much different and obviously required dramatically ramping the bottom of the barrel extension in a way that cut deeply into the lowest locking lug. This reduces not only the strength of the barrel extension, but the symmetry with which it accepts recoil loads from the bolt. The M-14 magazine thus allows a stronger action in the AR-10 than use of a FAL magazine would.

Unless modified by cutting an M16 style magazine catch slot in it, using the FAL magazine requires the action of the rifle to be built considerably longer than the action of the AR-10. The magazine itself is longer, and the magazine locking and bolt catch mechanisms behind it required more space between the trigger pocket and the barrel. The whole action thus must be longer, as well as the carrier. Both weight and length are increased.

ArmaLite was not alone in declining to use the FAL magazine. Two other firms building .308 caliber rifles settled on another magazine design. One of them put considerable effort into trying to use the inexpensive FAL magazine, but found that even an adjustable magazine catch made the proposition a failure. In the final analysis, ArmaLite accepted the tough, proven M-14 magazine as the basis for its AR-10 magazine. A third firm actually fielded a 7.62mm rifle with the FAL mag and it was a miserable failure, although it was difficult to tell if it was because of the mag or general incompetence. A fourth firm tried to introduce a rifle with a FAL mag and has failed to date, with considerable delay in introduction.

Three other companies did try the FAL magazine. All experienced significant problems with feeding and those rifles are now apparently off the market.

In the final analysis, it is poor policy to accept a magazine only because it is cheap. It’s letting the tail wag the dog, and if the rifle proved popular the supply of inexpensive magazines would disappear, prices would rise, and the advantage would be lost anyway.

ArmaLite will therefore not alter its design by switching from the proven M-14 magazine technology.
 
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Where are you getting M1A mags for $10??

At gun shows mostly. But I stopped buying them when the gen II mags came out in early 2007, so I have no idea what current pricing looks like.

Of course, G3/CETME mags were also 5 for $20 back then, and you could get surplus 7.62 for $220/case.
 
I have seen the cheap Korean M-14 mags for around $10 a pop. Unfortunately they are pieces of crap. They are made from sub-par steel, and their feed lips deform easily, leading to malfunctions. I tried them out with my M1A, and they went through maybe a couple hundred rounds before I started seeing problems. Switched to CMI mags and the problems disappeared.

As for whether to go with the RRA or Armalite, I would definitely go Armalite. The RRA uses a proprietary barrel nut and barrel extension. Nobody makes any after-market handguards or barrels that work for it, so you are limited to factory options there. Also you are limited to FAL mags, which are getting harder and harder to find. Also I know you were looking at the stainless match Armalite, but even their standard models have chrome-lined barrels, which isn't even an option on the RRA. I would trust an Armalite more reliability-wise as well. They have high quality standards, and have been in the .308 AR game longer than anybody but KAC.

Oh, and just as a matter of terminology, "AR-10" refers specifically to the Armalite pattern. The RRA pattern is called "LAR-8."
 
Also the Armalite AR10 receivers are made from 7175 forgings, a better choice than 6061 billets or 7075 forgings
 
I like RRAs, but if I was buying a 308 I would go with the Armalite. The mag release setup on the 308 RRA I handled just seemed contrived to me.
 
While I can't speak for the other manufacturers I have an ArmaLite that I have been real pleased with. The Gen II mags from ArmaLite in 5 packs run about $30 a mag and I am fine with that. Also, as mentioned I can hack my old M1A (M14) mags to work. The current sights on mine are Centra CG sights. Overall I am real pleased with this rifle but as I mentioned I have not tried the other manufacturer's rifles.

AR10%202.png

Standard sights and the scope mount which are seldom if ever used anymore:

AR%2010%20Scope.png

I would heed some of the great advice posted, make a decision and move on the decision.


Ron
 
Here's the article:

Industry » ArmaLite » FAQ; Why ArmaLite doesn't use the FAL magazine

Yup, that's the bit I've seen. Question to RRA owners: Was Armalite right, or did RRA engineers overcome the problems mentioned?

I see plenty of brand new FAL mags being sold, so having to deal with beat-up surplus parts shouldn't be an issue. Or, do the new mags (DSA is the brand I see most) work as expected in the LAR-8?
 
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