AR15 300 blackout poor accuracy : /

[Gdbyrd]

I have a stag lower with wilson combat barreled upper, 16". I built it as rifle for my kids to take game with but they prefer bolt actions, so I'm using it this year for south Tx whitetail. I will only be using the Barns TAC-TX 110 grn black tip bullet and maximum yardage is 130 yards.

I finally got a chance to do some shooting this weekend..I was averaging about 1.5-2" at 100 yards(9x optic). I had a red dot on this before and was zerod at 25 yards, so I never shot it for accuracy. While this is more than adequate for my intended use, I'd really prefer something better..

My load is 19.5 grains of W296 with a COAL of 2.245". Do you have any advice for load changes that might steer me on a more accurate path?

My nearest range is 1.5 hours away, so I can't easily try out a bunch of different combos, but I'll do the best I can.

 

[Gdbyrd]

In contrast my Savage 11 in 223 shoots 1/2" groups and I can usually do under 1" with the majority of my AR15s in 223 with crap ammo. Just saying so shooter error isn't factored in.

 

[Swampman]

The Barnes X bullets are designed for hunting, not target shooting, although I have seen them shoot some very good groups. You could try different powders, charge weights and seating depths, but it may come down to your particular rifle just not liking that bullet.

The rate of twist in most .300 Blackout barrels is designed to stabilize long heavy subsonic bullets and that's likely to overstabilize shorter bullets driven at high velocities.

Given the ballistic limitations of the cartridge/bullet, the 130 yard maximum range, and the size of a deers vitals, I can't think of many situations where a .5 moa rifle would give you any practical advantage over a 2 moa rifle.

Given how close we are to deer season (and the distance to your nearest range ), I'd worry about other aspects of the hunt if I were you.

 

[jmorris]

My nearest range is 1.5 hours away, so I can't easily try out a bunch of different combos, but I'll do the best I can.

Sure you can. Either load up the various combinations first or you can even take equipment to the range and load.

 

[jmr40]

2" at 100 yards is more than adequate if you don't plan on shooting farther than 130 yards. Barnes bullets can often compete with match bullets for accuracy, but they are very sensitive to seating depth. Many find better accuracy seated a little deeper than most others.

 

[cfullgraf]

One to one and a half inch groups at 100 yards is about normal that I get with both my 300 BLK shooting bullets ranging from 110 grain to 155 grain bullets at supersonic velocities.

I get a tighter group on occasions but not regularly. A bit disappointing but acceptable for the use I want the rifles for.

Others and various gun magazine scribes do better with similar rifles and ammunition.

I understand that Savage offered a 300 BLK rifle a few years ago and withdrew it because of accuracy issues. So, I wonder if the round gets finicky trying to eek out tight groups.

I would like to try a barrel with a bit slower twist than normally offered for the 300 BLK but I'm too lazy to contract for a special order barrel and the only "off the self" barrels are fast twist for suppressed, long, heavy bullets. (Note, I have not investigated this in a while so a slow twist barrel may be available.)

Just one data point.

 

[Gdbyrd]

I had read similar entries that it's just not inherently accurate but wanted some confirmation. I like it for what it is but was just disappointed. I'll try seating it a little deeper and see if that helps.

My only concern for wanting tighter groups is that it'll be my primary rifle and every deer rifle I've used for the last decade was under 1" at 100...overkill, especially in this situation but if given the opportunity I liked knowing it could reach out there. With the tac-tx, there's the potential for expansion out to 400 yards! Rainbows away!

 

[Sunray]

I'd change bullets. Hodgdon gives data for up to 230 grain bullets. Lotta versatility there. I'd be thinking 140's plus. Mind you, like jmr40 says, that accuracy is fine the way it is. Those wee Texas deer don't need benchrest accuracy. Neither do the big SOB's we have up here.

 

[ugaarguy]

I've moved this to handloading and reloading since the OP is asking about tweaking his handloads rather than factory loaded ammo options.

 

[oldpapps]

I don't want to state the classic answers but...

Hardware:
The weapon must be fitted tight with nothing moving, slipping or changing. I will assume that with your experience, these things have been accomplished. I will tell on myself. One day I just couldn't hit anything, the weapon was a 16 inch SS bbl in .223/5.56. I was getting frustrated and happened to take a hold of the scope only to find that some how it was loose. It had just became loose!

Your load/s:
My .300 Black has never had a 'factory' loading chambered. I have worked hard to find the loads that my weapon likes. Some loads with go from great to crap with just a few thousands of inch seating change. The bullets used, I think, are the biggest factor. I have been working with cast and powder coated 130 grain projectiles and have found this a more demanding and rewarding process. Yesterday I was shooting an old golf ball at about 47 or so yards (that range was just a lot more covenant, I didn't have to cross my creek to chase the ball). With my cast and powder coated bullets, I hit twice out of 8 shots. Not bad for an old man with ocular degeneration when shooting free hand. This was a good day both for my loads and me. I was pleased.

Final results:
Work with your loads. If you only shoot 'factory' stuff, you will have fewer options.

Load with care and enjoy.

 

[NWcityguy2]

If you are only going to be using one bullet, you need to experiment with more powders. It is not uncommon to see a 2 or more MOA difference between an bad loading and an accurate loading.

But... When hunting, you are very unlikely to hold a 1 moa difference in the field.

 

[Gdbyrd]

Thank you all for the advice. Do you have any suggestions on alternate powders? I'd imagine 2400 would be a contender...although I'd assume velocity would suffer some.

Hunting is from a blind and I generally have a good rest..even so, if I can do 1" at a bench and go to 2" with buck fever...thats better than 1.5-3".

This will be the only rifle I take with me and I do some driving around where scenderos are over 1000 yards. I'd prefer to have the accuracy and not use it instead of the alternative. My longest shot with my old rifle was 396 yards. I changed locations and have much shorter typical shots so I figured why not try something new!

 

[Gummi Bear]

H110, W296, Lil Gun, 300MP are all powders that folks have used to develop Blackout rounds with.

My last batch was 125 gn Noslers with 300MP powder (18.7gn) and a CCI 450 primer (these made a difference with the ball powder) loaded at 2.2" COAL. A small rifle magnum primer got a much more complete burn of the powder, and a lot less carbon fouling of the brass and my rifle.

They will shoot MOA out of my rifle (misc parts used in AR build, Stoner barrel)

I have some TAC-TX loaded ammo that I got from Custom Reloads of Dallas, and they easily shoot under MOA. I will try to reproduce that in the coming months. I can measure my TAC-TX rounds and send you the COAL, I do know they need to make more of a leap to the lands.

 

[Gdbyrd]

If you could send me that I'd appreciate it. I have about 6 lbs of 296, reason I went with that. I had also heard it was one of the better powders for the caliber. I'll look into the data for Lil gun and try that.

I'm using small rifle primers. It may be worth it to try small magnum like you said. I do a lee factory crimp and I'm not seeing a lot of buildup, but it might help with the inconsistencies. Thanks again.

 

[cfullgraf]

Here are links to various powder companies that have some 300 BLK data.

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/rifle-reloading-data.html

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_7-2-13.pdf

Alliant Powders does not list 300 BLK data but there is data out there for Alliant 2400.

I use W296/H110 for lighter bullets and Accurate 1680 for 150-155 grain bullets and get adequate results. I have not tried any other powders for various reasons, a main one is I do not want to end up with another pound of powder that sits partially unused on my shelf. I have enough partial pounds of powder in that category already.

Many folks have success with other powders in the 300 BLK.

 

[Walkalong]

My 300 BLK barrel really likes the 123 Gr .310 Z Max using Enforcer. (Be sure your chambers neck area is big enough!)

I am working with the Rem 150 Gr PSP right now, but haven't gotten very far yet.

The Speer 130 Gr Hot Core performs well on target, but my barrel doesn't shoot them all that well. Well enough for 100, maybe 150 yards on game, but they won't shoot tight groups.

2400 or AA #9 both work well with 150 Gr FMJs for plinking. You'll need something slower to get better velocity for game.

 

[deputy bruce]

300 blkout

I also had very poor accuracy at low velocity I tried many bullets with out any good shooters. I settled with a serria 2120 bullet with a h 110 for powder and now I am shooting under an 1'' group at 110 meters. before I was about to pull out my hair [that I don't have much of anymore] but this upper will shoot but it is about 2300 fps low fps did not work have a safe trip to the range Bruce

 

[oldpapps]

Addressing accuracy only - load adjustments

"I will only be using the Barns TAC-TX 110 grn black tip bullet and maximum yardage is 130 yards.... averaging about 1.5-2" at 100 yards(9x optic).... adequate for my intended use, I'd really prefer something better..

... load is 19.5 grains of W296 with a COAL of 2.245".... nearest range is 1.5 hours away... "
Gdbyrd

I haven't used your selected bullet but close, sort of. Using the 110 grain 'V-Max', with H110 (supposedly the same as 296 and I think it is) with 19.5 grain, I get 2271 FPS with a OAL of 2.000 inches. With that bullet, I prefer LtGun, 18.7 grain, OAL of 2.01. inches for 2236.5 fps. These were not super accurate but ok.

My suggestion is to load a number of rounds with graduating length and test each at the range. 15 or more is the statistically best number of samples but 8 or 10 will give a good indication of tendencies.
The changing of primers may well have positive or negative results. Again, try some and test.

As for your selected powder choice, I think it is a good one.

Although I have not used 2400 with 110 grain bullets, I have found it very pleasing with my 130 grain cast/powder coated ones. 15.1 gains of 2400, 2.024 OAL runs a sweet 1959.35 fps with my little cast 130s. I don't have load data to draw upon for the lighter jacketed bullets.

For my needs, I can hit a golf ball 2 out of 8 times, free hand standing at 35 to 45 yards. {At my range, beyond 45 yards bounces the golf ball into the creek and I have to hurry to catch it. The other side of the creek is usable at about 52 yards and beyond but I have to use my 4wheeler and go up to the bridge to get on that side.} I have ocular degeneration that doesn't help and this is using my cast/powder coated 130 grain lead. Yes, other weapons/chambering/action types will do better. I'm happy with what I get.
[Best accuracy I have gotten is with 17.2 grains of Olin 630, 110 grain V-Max set at 2.010 inches, running 2328.5 fps. Don't think you will find any of that powder. That's why I didn't suggest it.]

Load with care,

 

[popper]

It's a long jump to the lands in BO with that light bullet. I do about 2 MOA with 155gr Amax, 15.5 gr H110/W296, loaded to max mag length (~1850 fps by the book). About the same as my 145 gr RNFP coated cast. 18" 1:10 twist 4# trigger. You chose the right powder but I haven't used that bullet. Thinking of reaming my barrel to something close to 40WT (designed for 125gr) - eliminate that long jump, longer neck and more powder space.

 

[Kaldor]

Lots of good info here. My thoughts below.

I dont personally shoot Barnes bullets because I think they are a little over priced and not accurate enough for my use. I will tweak and tailor a load until I get it shooting at right around an inch. I do load everything from 110 to 150 for 300 BO, supersonics only.

H110 and W296 are great powders for lighter supersonic bullets for 300 BO. For what its worth, Id give the Hornady 125gr SSTs a good look. Great performance on deer sized critters. I use LilGun and W296. The load listed below uses LilGun, but will work for W296/H110 if you work it up. Supposedly W296/H110 will net you a little more velocity than LilGun with lighter (110-125gr) bullets. I do not own a chrono (yet) so I cannot verify that.

This is my post from 300 BO Forums:

Rifle Used: Home built - Aero M4E1 upper, Aero lower, SSA-E trigger, AIM BCG, carbine buffer and spring, Vortex 3-9X50 Crossfire scope
Barrel Maker, Gas Length: Rainier Select (carbine gas)
Barrel Length and Twist: 16" 1X8.5 twist
Magazine Brand/Size: Lancer 10 rnd
Bullet Used (grain, manufacturer, type): Hornady 125 SST
Powder Charge and Brand: 18gr LilGun
Case Used: Lake City sized to 300 BO
Primer Used: Federal AR Match
COAL: 2.10"
Chronograph Velocity, manual velocity: Hodgon claims 2185 fps, will verify when I get a chrono
Notes: Loaded to 5 of each at 17.2, 17.4, 17.6, 17.8, 18. Accuracy got better which every jump. If I had enough room in the case 18.2 would likely be better.
18gr got me to 1.120 MOA at 100 yards

Taken from:
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=81553&start=30#p914031

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Here you go, work all did by me. Chronographed loads
http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3817

 

[mavracer]

but if given the opportunity I liked knowing it could reach out there. With the tac-tx, there's the potential for expansion out to 400 yards! Rainbows away!

At 400 yards you're approching .7 sec flight time on an animal capable of 60 feet per second, and you're dropping ~4" every 10 yards and you're only gonna have ~500 ft lbs of energy.

I love the 300 BO but it ain't a 400 yard deer gun. your current set up is good enough and I doubt you're going to get much better considering the bullet you're using, just too little bearing surface.

 

[Walkalong]

I love the 300 BO but it ain't a 400 yard deer gun.

Agreed.

 

[Krogen]

Check your concentricity. I my experience, the 300 BLK is very susceptible to runout which can adversely affect your group sizes.