AR15, such a rare topic eh?

[RainDownmyBlues]

Anyway, I'm harboring the notion of purchasing an AR15 after I plop down the cash for my Camaro.

So what is the difference in felt recoil between the .223 and .308?

I'm wanting the 20" I believe. Good choice?

What type of flashhider/muzzle brake options do I have? Which would relieve as much recoil as possible. Not that I'm a pussy, I just enjoy shooting, and less recoil means my shoulder can take it longer.

Do you suggest I get the A3 with removeable handle? Are the sights stil lthe same for the most part?

Should I go kit or buy pre-built? I've never built a kit .

 

[EvisceratorSrB]

The recoil in a .223 chambered rifle is negligible. You won't need a muzzle brake, unless it's for another purpose such as cosmetics or just plain reduction of an already almost non existent recoil. The .308 cartridge has a lot of energy behind it. You'll feel it and your shoulder will get sore after so many rounds. You can fire .223's all day and not get sore. As for the other stuff, let the AR-15 people cover that.

 

[10-Ring]

Check out ar15.com for alot more info!
I'm a noobie too. I've only recently gotten into ar's and find them to be great guns. Easy to shoot well for long periods of time, relatively inexpensive ammo and very versatile.
As for the options you ask for...I prefer the flat top w/o the carry handle. Between optics and whatever else, a carry handle might just be something you'd keep at home in a parts bag. I'd recommend shooting it first and then decide if you need to change out the bird cage your ar will probably come with
Have fun on your quest

 

[Cacique500]

This is all my opinion so no flaming...

On the length of the rifle you said you were thinking 20". If you're target shooting only or varmint hunting this would be a good choice.

I prefer the 16" M4 configuration - I can still plink out to a few hundred yards and in my opinion it's a much more versatile configuration.

I have two M4A3's, one a Colt, one a S&W...I prefer the removable carry handle (A3). The nice thing is if you ever want to remove the handle you can - but I kept the handle on both of mine and mounted ACOG's on the handles...works great for me. It's also nice to be able to cowitness the sights (or have iron sights as a backup) which is not the case with a flat top (though you can add flip up sights for extra $$) The other thing I like about the M4A3 config is the collapsable stock. I'm large and shoot with the stock fully extended...my significant other is tiny so she can put the stock all the way in. Kinda nice when we can both shoot the same firearm. A 20" fixed stock variant may be an issue for some women / children.

As far as the factory vs. building (and again this is my opinion) I'd go with factory. Yes, there are hundreds if not thousands who have 'built' their own AR and saved a few bucks, but they're generally the ones that complain about 'issues'. A good rule of thumb - if your AR can't shoot wolf, you got a crappy AR... (Ok, that comment should generate a flame or two )

As far as recoil, there is no comparison between .308 and .223 - .308 will beat the crap out of you. I can shoot .223 all day long...think of it as a strong .22 type recoil. You can also purchase a slip on buttpad for the collapsable stocks (can't remember the name but a search on AR15.com will find it for you) and that makes it even more of a pleasure to shoot...looks good too.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

So what is the difference in felt recoil between the .223 and .308?

I think the AR10 tames felt recoil pretty well; but I also am pretty recoil tolerant with rifles (pistols are another story entirely).

I'm wanting the 20" I believe. Good choice?

Depends on what you want to do with it. I like the 16" barrels as they are very handy and shoot well out to the maximum distances I shoot (600yds currently).

What type of flashhider/muzzle brake options do I have? Which would relieve as much recoil as possible.

You can pretty much shoot .223 all day without a muzzle brake and you'll run out of wallet before you run out of shoulder. I haven't been able to shoot the AR10 to that same degree; but I think I could go several hundred rounds with it sans muzzle brake. However, a braked .223 is pretty fun to shoot - the recoil just drops to nothing. The JP Eliminator is probably the most effective brake I have seen; but the Miculek, MSTN Comp and a few others are good choices too.

Do you suggest I get the A3 with removeable handle? Are the sights stil lthe same for the most part?

I always recommend people get the flattop. Even if you never add optics, the flattop gives you the flexibility to add the iron sights of your choice. Like the M14 sights? They make them for flattop AR15s. Like the H&K drum sights? They make them for flattop AR15s. You can also always use the detachable carry handle which is basically identical to an A2 except it doesn't have the 700 and 800 elevation on the drum.

Should I go kit or buy pre-built? I've never built a kit .

If you buy a kit, factor in the cost of buying whatever tools you need. AR15s are pretty easy to build, even for a first timer; but most places will let you choose what components you want and ship it already assembled. This is the route many people take. If you buy the lower and the upper as separate assembled components, you only pay excise tax on the lower (a $200 piece) as opposed to paying it for an entire $800+ rifle.

 

[benEzra]

Here's the web site of one of the more highly regarded AR manufacturers:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/subcats.cfm?Category=01

Here's my favorite:

I'd pay a little extra for a chrome-lined barrel ($40) and a Vortex flash suppressor ($50). Prices are MSRP, so your local gun shop might be able to give you a slightly better price.

As far as barrel length, 20" gives you a bit more velocity and a bit less noise/muzzle blast, but 16" is handier. For a 16" barrel, I think the mid-length handguard and gas system is a better idea than the shorter carbine-length setup.

 

[possum]

What type of flashhider/muzzle brake options do I have? Which would relieve as much recoil as possible. Not that I'm a pussy, I just enjoy shooting, and less recoil means my shoulder can take it longer.

you could always spend about $90 and get one of those hydralic buffers. which is gonna be my next purchase for my ar15. that will cut down on recoil even more, and follow up shots will be quick and easy. I don't mind recoil either, but the faster you can get back on target and fire multiple shots the better in many situations.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Rather than buy a "assemble your own lower" kit, it's usually easier to buy a complete lower, and then add the stock of your choice, and then toss a complete upper on it. This requires no more skill than just breaking it down to clean takes.

The upside is that you get the parts you want, don't have to sell extra parts, and need no tools or skills. In 90% of cases, a Lower Parts Kit and a Lower cost about what a Complete Lower costs, and I'm not into fiddling with springs and screws.

Another vote for 16" as being best for all-around use. I know folks use the 20" for certain types of matches and use the 24" for varminiting and target shooting, but for general shooting and emergency use, definitely 16"

Muzzle-brake is a non-issue in .223, just go with a flash-hider. An actual recoil-reducing muzzle brake will increase the concussion and blast, which would discombobulate you more than just a little push in your shoulder.

-MV

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I assembled my lower .223. I got the receiver from a dealer, so all paperwork and phone calls were done. I got the rest of the lower stuff mailorder from Armalite including a match trigger (similar to Rock River's match trigger). Assembly is easy, but I needed a good magnet to find the little parts that got fumbled.

I don't have the tools or knowledge to put an upper together, so just bought a Rock River 20" A2.

The two parts work great together, they even handle Wolf ammo

I like to shoot with iron sights, and the 20" gives a little bit longer sight radius, so that's a plus. My next upper will have a front sight mount all the way at the muzzle, to get even better radius. If you're going to use a scope or red-dot thing, then the barrel length is not important, both will shoot good.

Regards.

 

[1911 guy]

Application.

For strictly target or varmint work, I've got an AR with a 24" barrel. Yeah, it's an oddball and a little long. But it's also very accurate. Eats up bullseyes with iron sights and keeps a JHP inside MOG (minute of groundhog) out to 400 over a rest. Probably farther if I was a decent shot.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

you could always spend about $90 and get one of those hydralic buffers. which is gonna be my next purchase for my ar15. that will cut down on recoil even more, and follow up shots will be quick and easy.

Don't expect much improvement on a semi-auto .223 recoil-wise. If you have an M16 or a heavier caliber (.50 Beowulf, 6.8SPC) you may appreciate one more; but I have the MGI buffer and generally most people can't tell the difference between the rifle with the MGI and the rifle with the standard carbine buffer. The difference is there; but it is small. IMO, switching to a midlength gives a better improvement on the recoil impulse.

 

[rbernie]

So what is the difference in felt recoil between the .223 and .308?

Using a magnified optic, you can visually stay on target at almost any range in 223 but you cannot in 308; the 308 will jump enough to cause you to momentarily lose sight of the target. That's probably the easiest way to explain it, since actual recoil tolerance is a very personal thing.

I'm wanting the 20" I believe. Good choice?

You lose about 100fps going from the 20" to the 16". That may matter to you - it may not. I'm not doing a lot of CQB stuff, so I prefer the 20" so long as I know that I'm not going to want a large muzzle adornment on it that would make the 20" too long.

My field rifles are all post-ban and 20". My CQB carbine, with Phantom flash hider, is a 16" midlength.

Do you suggest I get the A3 with removeable handle? Are the sights stil lthe same for the most part?

Bartholomew is spot on with his advice - you can always add irons and A2-style carry handles risers to a flattop but you can't make an A2 into a flattop.

What type of flashhider/muzzle brake options do I have? Which would relieve as much recoil as possible. Not that I'm a pussy, I just enjoy shooting, and less recoil means my shoulder can take it longer.

Most any muzzle break is going to make the weapon louder. The JP break, for example, is quite obnoxiously loud. I don't find 223, or even 308, to have sufficient recoil to warrant a break. But again, this is a personal taste kind of thing.

Should I go kit or buy pre-built? I've never built a kit

I have decided that the first AR should always be a pre-built from a reputable manufacturer. That way, you're not stuck trying to troubleshoot the weapon while you're trying to get used to it and learn how to use it.

Build the second one. And if you get one, there *will* be a second one...

 

[Nhsport]

There is something to be said for buying your first ar and building one later on .
The asault weapon ban (federal) has gone away but several states still have some restrictive laws in place so that might play into your decision.
Most folks find the recoil in an ar to be a non issue but the longer 20" with the standard fixed stock will not jump around as much as a little lightweight carbine.
Get yourself some good ear protection as the ARs have a pretty sharp bark .I prefer foam earplugs with earmuffs over them as my range has a solid roof that bounces the noise back at you