Are .357 and .38 really the same size?

Status
Not open for further replies.
There was a lot of swapping in those dayss. Smith and Wesson took the .38 Long Colt and stretched it to produce the .38 Smith and Wesson Special. When it proved to be popular, Colt offered revolvers chambered for the .38 Colt Special -- which, surprise, surprise, is identical to the .38 Smith and Wesson Special.
 
And then there is the .357 Maximum. Basically an enlongated .357 Mag. It had some issues w/ burning the forcing cone and back straps on revolvers, so it never really caught on. It's still shot by the single shot pistol crowd.
 
So... seeing that originally the .357mag was of the same case length as a .38spl... if one were inclined to do so today, you could load a .38special to .357magnum performance???
 
No, not exactly.

The .38 Special case can be hot loaded in a .357 Mag gun to about halfway between .38 +P and .357 Mag performance levels.

When push comes to shove, the extra case capacity of the .357 Mag allows the use of more, slower burning, powder.

And that results in being able to reach higher velocity with the same weight bullets in the magnum case.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
seeing that originally the .357mag was of the same case length as a .38spl... if one were inclined to do so today, you could load a .38special to .357magnum performance???
Click to expand...
The cartridge you're thinking of is the .38/44, not the .357 Magnum. The .38/44 was close to .357 ballistics, though.

If you are shooting it in a .357 revolver, you can load a .38 Special considerably hotter than usual -- some handloaders say if you load to the same overall lenght, you can load the .38 Special to duplicate .357 ballistics. Their reasoning is that the cartridge doesn't know how long it is -- it only knows how much space is below the base of the bullet. And .38s and .357s loaded to the same OAL will have the same space below the base of the bullet.

However, brass in cartridges intended for low-pressure loads is often softer than brass intended for high-pressure loads. So the case is the weak link in this experiment.

Personally, I see no reason to overload .38 Special cases -- in fact, I go the other way and load and shoot thousands of very light .38 Specials every year for target practice, plinking and small game hunting.
 
I believe the 444 Marlin also shoots a .429.
Click to expand...
Which is why it has had such lack-luster success. It was loaded with .44 Magnum bullets, but overpowered them. Had early .444 ammo been offered with bullets designed for its velocity capabilities, it would probably have sold much better.
 
Hence the S&W Model 29
Click to expand...
I don't believe bullet diameter had anything to do with naming the Model 29. It just happened to be the next number to come up.

The Model 27 was the .357 Magnum.
The Model 28 was an econemy model .357 Magnum, (The Highway Patrolman)
The Model 29 was the .44 Magnum.
The Model 30 was the .32 Hand Ejector.

Carried further:
The Model 41 was a .22 Target pistol.
The .41 Magnum was the Model 57.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
as accurate as the .410 bore shotgun
Click to expand...

Fixed it for ya. ;)

Nobody has brought up the 8X57 Mauser yet.

Early on, the "8mm German Mauser" rifles fired a .318 diameter bullet, with later ones going to .323 inch. Outwardly, the two cartridges were identical, and would freely interchange...until the trigger gets pulled. If the smaller bullet is fired in the larger bores...innacuracy is the result. If it goes the other way...ka-blooey events are a distinct probability.
 
as accurate as the .410 bore shotgun
Click to expand...


Fixed it for ya.
Click to expand...

thanks 1911Tuner, but I meant to say .410 ga. It's one of those things that makes me chuckle at the guns/ammo counter......... "hey buddy, you got any 410 gauge shells?" :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Personally, I see no reason to overload .38 Special cases -- in fact, I go the other way and load and shoot thousands of very light .38 Specials every year for target practice, plinking and small game hunting
Click to expand...
And chamber erosion is a real possibility when hot .38 Special loads are fired in .357 Mag revolvers. Best to use what the gun is designed for.
 
softer brass in 38 as opposed to 357,don't know about that,but do know that while Elmer Keith was working on the .357 concept,he shot a ton of ammo equal to .357 spec's using 38 brass and bullets seated not to deep. jwr
 
The whole concept of loading .357 Mag pressure loads in .38 Spl. cases just seems so wrong!
Oh, I know you can do it, but it's just wrong!

I don't want any ammo in my house that will damage a fine old gun if a round of it gets in the wrong gun sometime in the future. (even after I'm gone.)

For the same reason, I load .44 Specials in .44 Special brass & .44 Mag in .44 Mag brass.

I even sold a Ruger .45 Colt I bought to hot-load .45 Colt, because I didn't want any of my "Ruger loads" getting in the same room with my old Colt SAA's.

And I don't care how carefully you mark it, with Mr. Murphy's law in effect, it's bound to happen sooner, or later.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
softer brass in 38 as opposed to 357,don't know about that,but do know that while Elmer Keith was working on the .357 concept,he shot a ton of ammo equal to .357 spec's using 38 brass and bullets seated not to deep.
Click to expand...
I'm a great fan of Elmer Keith, but he did most of his work in the days before electronic pressure-measuring equipment was available to the common man, and he blew up more than one handgun with his loads. In fact, that's why he abandond the .45 Colt and went to .44 Special -- to get thicker cylinder walls because he had blown up a couple of .45s.
 
If a shotgun was truly "410 Gauge" the bore would be like...about the size of #4 buckshot.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the gague number representative of how many bore-diameter balls of lead are needed to equal one pound? If so, I would think that a ".410 gague" shotgun bore would be much larger than even a 10 ga.

I understand what you mean, though, about it being a .410 and not a ".410 gague."

EDIT: Oh, you meant 410 without the decimal. My mistake :eek:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the gague number representative of how many bore-diameter balls of lead are needed to equal one pound? If so, I would think that a ".410 gague" shotgun bore would be much larger than even a 10 ga.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct, sir! Due to the southern enunciation ..."Four Hunnert'n'Ten Gauge" I completely omitted the decimal point.

Yeah. That'd be a big shotgun, for sure. :D
 
The .38 Special got the "38" from the cartridge's early black powder loading which used a heel based bullet the same diameter as the case (like a .22 LR). When they changed to the smaller bullet they didn't change the name. Its the same story with the .44s. The original .44 American also used a heel based bullet.
Click to expand...


Correct


We have a winner
 
Gauge size is based on a lead ball that would just fit in the bore, and the number of such balls that would make a pound. A 16 gauge would take a lead ball weighing an ounce.

A true ".410 gauge" would take a lead ball weighting 2.44 lbs. That's waaay bigger than a 10 gauge -- or even a 4 gauge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
How did they decide on bullet diameter?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
CWL
C
K
  • Locked
What is caliber, really?
Replies
22
Views
1K
Mike Irwin
M
B
  • Locked
.38 and .357?
Replies
20
Views
1K
Croyance
C
S
  • Locked
40 years old ammo catalog: 357 and 44 got downloaded..9mm, 45 and others didn't..why?
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
SaxonPig
S
george burns
  • Locked
What percentage of shooters actually carry a full sized gun
2 3
Replies
64
Views
4K
RT.45
R
Back
Top