Are all anti's really closet classists?

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Wedge

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In the Eighties I would have been considered a yuppie. Young, wife and I are well educated, DINKs (for now), live pretty comfortably. This is just to set the tone and why I get annoyed at statements people make.

I swear, everytime gun control comes up (usually after talking about target shooting or possibly hunting) it usually starts with someone saying to me "Now, I don't mind YOU owning a gun...", with a very clear meaning of what YOU really means. I am talking about the extreme anti's but have no problems with me owning firearms or carrying for protection, with their neighbors being able to protect themselves and I am actually a little surprised that they don't own a shotgun for HD to protect what is there's and in some cases even do. But arming the general population is a recipe for disaster and a reason that there is crime :scrutiny:

The worst is when they try to say how open and diverse they are but when it comes down to it they INSTANTLY drive a wedge of us vs. them (haves vs. have nots) right through their thought process.

Is this attitude that I have noticed similar to that other members have experienced?
 
anti's dont trust anyone, especially themselves. They are scared of the possibilities if they were to have a loaded gun in their hands, so no one should have them.
 
In my experience, most antis don't want ANYONE (outside of the police and military) to have guns. They really and truly are "sheep", in that they subscribe to the "herd" mentality, and would rather put all "bad" thoughts out of their minds, and rely on the police to protect them.

As a side issue, I'm also a bicyclist. I visit a lot of bicycling forums, and surprisingly this issue comes up quite frequently there. I lot of bicyclists worry about self defense, and a surprising number that you pass on the road or one the MUP (Multi-Use Path) probably have a pistol tucked into their jersey pocket or in their handlebar bag. But whenever a thread on the subject is opened (e.g. "What's The Best Way To Carry My Glock When Riding") the discussion quickly degenerates into name-calling, and people expressing horror at the "barbaric and lawless U.S., etc.

It's really kind of a riot. Almost as much fun as the "leg shaving" debate (I usually respond with "enough about the legs - I want to know about my back!").
 
Nothing personal, but this reminds me that I get annoyed at the term "anti's" being bandied about constantly. That term INSTANTLY drives a wedge of us vs. them right through OUR thought process. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
Exactly who are these "anti" people? Are they them? Are we them? Are they us? All I read is "anti's". Now I know for certain that every one of us is anti-something. We aren't pro-everything. The discussions here at THR show that all of us don't even agree on every gun issue. There are pro and anti viewpoints on many gun issues here. I'm personally 'anti" many things and pro many things....even gun related things. Does that make me "them"? Should I hand in my CCW?
Why is it always "us vs them"? Who are them anyway? Should I be looking over my shoulder for them? :uhoh:
Jack
 
Maybe a few are and those would most likely be the ones in high profile positions whose names are familiar to you. Most antis are people who believe that guns make killing easier and that, if we eliminate guns, there will be fewer people killed. I don't necessarily agree.
Threads like this one, however, are mainly an invitation for us to pat ourselves on the bum over how much better we are than they are, in ways too numerous to list.:rolleyes:
 
Are anti's "classist?" In a word; Yes.

And there's even some "gun owners" who are. I'm sure we've all heard the "I'm a gun owner and I think there needs to be more restrictions" line, VPC loves those folks. And think of all the talk about "cheap" firearms that even some gun owners say should be illegal or banned because they aren't reliable or made by "big-name" manufacturers. "Why, that's just pot-metal, you need to get yerself a real gun!" Well, not everyone can afford a Sig or Kimber Custom right off the bat.
 
There are a few people I know who wanted or did own guns, until their wives ordered them (the guns) out of the house. One of my coworkers is currently selling is guns because his wife is pregnant and doesn't want guns around the baby.

Meanwhile my mother and g/f both CCW.
 
I would say a large portion are folks that have never been exposed to firearms except for on TV. They can't see a need for a gun in their life therefore why should anybody need one?
 
One of my coworkers is currently selling is guns because his wife is pregnant and doesn't want guns around the baby.
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Great. Another child will grow up without a man in the house.
 
As a side issue, I'm also a bicyclist. I visit a lot of bicycling forums, and surprisingly this issue comes up quite frequently there. I lot of bicyclists worry about self defense, and a surprising number that you pass on the road or one the MUP (Multi-Use Path) probably have a pistol tucked into their jersey pocket or in their handlebar bag. But whenever a thread on the subject is opened (e.g. "What's The Best Way To Carry My Glock When Riding") the discussion quickly degenerates into name-calling, and people expressing horror at the "barbaric and lawless U.S., etc.
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I've seen the same thing on the cycling forums... Usually some European complaining that a barbaric American would dare to shoot a motorist who ran them him the road, fracturing both of the cyclist's legs, then attempted to rob him. Why don't American cyclists fight fair?

Their rants can be defused by pointing out that a cyclist might carry a firearm for dangerous animal encounters, such as with mountain lions, bears, coyotes, and geese. Europeans apparently don't place as high a value on the life of a goose as they do the life of someone trying to kill them... so shooting an animal justifies firearms possesion, in their minds.

Also, Europeans in long-settled areas may be used to criminals, but not to wild animals like mountain lions and geese... so they tend to especially frightened of the dangers.

OK, let our European members start flaming! :fire: :neener:


I believe that cyclists are more likely to carry simply because they spend more time alone outdoors, and in remote places. They're much more likely to have encountered a few crazy people than someone who spends his weekends in the house. Same goes for campers, hikers, fishermen, hunters, rock climbers, etc.
 
I believe many antis feel that the vast majority of people are completely unable to control any emotion or urge that comes to mind, thus the government must control it for them.

They project their own pathetic belief that unseen forces and inanimate objects will "cause" them to do bad things to other people. This projection of their own shortcomings then means that no one should have guns.

In the end, we are reaping the victim/me/instant gratification/me-me-me/whatever-feels-good seeds that have been sown since the 1960's in popular culture.
 
Are all anti's really closet classists?
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Of course not. Sweeping generalizations about a large group of people are almost never accurate.

However, in my experience many people who would be described as "antis" share a few common traits:

1) Little to no actual experience with firearms.
2) Live in areas with relatively restrictive gun laws.
3) Have not personally experienced violent crime.
4) Often have an inflated idea of what "911" can do.
5) Don't "plan ahead" for emergencies.*

* For example, I've had discussions with quite a few people who have anti-gun opinions. At some point, I will often ask them the following two questions:

1) Do you keep fire extinguishers in your house?
2) Do you have an emergency kit in your car?

With rare exception, they have not.
 
As a former anti, I think you're about half to two thirds right, but I think you're focusing on the wrong point.

Most antis are the way they are out of ignorance, not out of being classist rectums. Their arguments seem classist out of fear and ignorance. Let me explain.

If you're a urban or suburban dweller that has never handled a gun, you assume lots of things that just arent' so. If you've never experienced a gun as a shooter, then the VPC or Brady's stances make sense. Guns are scary if you don't know the truth about them. The mythos around them currently makes them seem like some complicated tool, like an F-16 fighter aircraft, that takes years and years of heavy police or millitary training to master.

We all know that just isn't so, but your average ignorant anti can believe that, just out of ignorance. As soon as you get a gun in their hands, and they realise that even without ANY training, they can manage to hit a B-27 at 5 meters, the veeneer starts to crumble.

You also have to realise that most ignorant anti's exposure to guns is on the news. "Two killed in gunfire in carjacking gone wrong." "Family gunned down in home invasion." so this makes guns seem like a tool only for evil.

The main problem is ignorance. As a former anti, I believed these things, until my personal experience proved them wrong. I've talked quite a few former antis into seeing various shades of the light, from supporting the idea of the 2nd amendment; but forgoing personal gun ownership, to people who were so entranced by it, that they own more guns than I do, and shoot them far more than I ever could hope to.

We need to take a page from the Evangalical christians here, and become gun rights evangelists; getting as many people to see the light as possible; at every opportunity. It's your best bet for protecting your second amendment rights.

"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."
--Hanlon's Razor

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-- MLK
 
just my observations from my dealings

The anti-RKBA-ers that I meet tend to be younger and have gone to public schools and been indoctrinated there with Brady propaganda. A lifetime of hysterical sensational leftist news coverage has left them terrified by incidents like Columbine et al, and recently Virginia Tech. Many have gone on to college and had this propaganda reinforced. They tend to be from affluent families, have never lived in a rough neighborhood, or been the victim of a violent crime. More often than not they're female.

They've been told that love, understanding, diversity, and gun-grabbing will stop all crimes, and they are true believers in an almost religious sense. Their programmers in the schools have tolerated no dissent on the gun issue, and they're not used to disagreement with their viewpoint. Our failure to agree will often perplex them to the point of tears and anger.

Despite the fact that they are so convinced of the veracity of their position, often it is not a well-thought out position, having been accepted whole from their peers and teachers lock-stock-and-barrel (pun intended.) They usually haven't done any research on the subject, and have never heard about the "successful results" of their counterparts in countries like the UK.
 
I'm with Nitrogen, most are just ignorant. They've grown up in families without guns and don't really know much about them other than what they see in the media. Assault weapon? Well that does sound scary, they're right that should be banned. If we quit calling them comminists for a few minutes and talk real statistics with them and take them to the range I think there are actually very few that won't drop the anti feelings.
 
Are all anti's really closet classists?
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No, most of them are right out in the open about their classism/elitism


Classism and elitism are the cornerstones of the anti gun movement. They don't want to eliminate all firearms from the face of the earth, they just want them removed from the hands of certain classes of people, most still support an armed police and military.


I would go so far as to define anti-gun beliefs as a form of classism.
 
Most of the "don't like guns" people are different in many ways. They aren't "my" kind of people. The area I am from is half working class. Farmers, mechanics, truck drivers. The other half, now, are "city" people that have moved out to the rural areas. Not that they don't work but they don't sweat will doing it.

Now don't flame me because I made the impression that people that don't get dirty at work are anti-gun ect...That isn't what I am saying.... BUT. I would bet that most of the "clean" working, suit wearing people on this forum are down to earth and wouldn't look down on a person that does get dirty for a living. We just have a difference in jobs not overall attitude.


The ones here are just weird all the way around for the most part.
 
Lack of exposure - they've never had the opportunity to handle one safely and have fun doing so, all they ever see on the news (or heard through their windows) is negative so they have purely negative perceptions.

Take people shooting, people.
 
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