Are "AR's" really worth the price ??

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I am curious in a lot of posts I see guys that say the AR is great for 100 yards, I shot expert in the USMC with open sites and every Marine is required to qualify at 500 yards as part of the range. The AR platform with good optics is a lot of fun to shoot at 500 yards. My eyes are no longer good for open sites at that range. :mad:
 
It has the same energy at 100 yards as a .44 magnum point blank. It also has twice the energy as a .45 ACP point blank at 300 yards. There is more than just bullet size that determines how well it performs or how much "stopping power" it has. If that was the case than why do measly .30 caliber rounds like .308 Win and 30-06 have much, much more power than .45 ACP with a smaller and lighter bullet?
This may be true about energy level, but I'd bet real money, if you had to make a choice of taking a .45ACP point blank or a .223 at 300 yards, you'd opt for the .223 in a heart beat. There is a reson that the .223 is not allowed as a hunting cartidge in a lot of states.
 
I don't understand the question. It is too broad. AR15 is not a rifle. It is a broad class of all sorts of rifles.

It's like asking if a "truck" is worth the price. Be more specific. The answer depends on which "truck" you are talking about, and purpose you intend for it. Some will be worth it, some will not.
 
I recently got into AR's and the first thing I noticed is that there are A LOT more parts to an AR as compared to what I've been used to for 20 something years - the AK platform... Like double the number of parts! I guess that's why someone else in this thread said they're "pretty reliable". Just more parts to fail.

Are they worth the money? It depends on what you're trying to do. They're great guns to customize and "play" with. They're accurate at much further distances than an AK. AR's are much more versatile when it comes to chamberings. I like both because I have both, so yeah - AR's are worth the money.
 
There is a reason that the .223 is not allowed as a hunting cartridge in a lot of states.
Yeah, mostly due to ignorance and poor marksmanship on the part of the majority of hunters. A lot of states don't allow hunting deer with rifles, period. Is that also because of lack of effectiveness?
 
"Worth it" is a complex question. I certainly wouldn't choose an AR type rifle if it were my only gun. It really isn't the best choice for deer hunting, and that's my ultimate use for a rifle. I do more target shooting than hunting, but I value hunting more.

If you're someone who has a slew of kids to support and has to very carefully weigh each and every gun purchase then I think you might want to consider filling out your toolbox with a good deer rifle, good 22 and good shotgun first. On the other hand if you're someone who has the luxury of buying guns 'just because' then you would probably enjoy having one.
 
Nostalgia is one of the AR's main attraction to me. I was issued an A1 in Basic, an A2 when I got to my unit, and another A2 when I ETSd and joined the Reserves. I know the AR series of rifles inside and out;better than any other. It always brings a smile to my face, when I open my safe and see a line of them waiting to be taken out and shot.
Best value? Probably not. But, definitely the most fun.
 
I am curious in a lot of posts I see guys that say the AR is great for 100 yards, I shot expert in the USMC with open sites and every Marine is required to qualify at 500 yards as part of the range. The AR platform with good optics is a lot of fun to shoot at 500 yards. My eyes are no longer good for open sites at that range. :mad:

Quals are one thing, but statistics have shown that most enemy encounters happen with less than 100 yards separating the opposing units. I would have problems even seeing a target at 200 yards. At 500 yards? Fuggetaboutit!.

:)
 
It really isn't the best choice for deer hunting

Tell that to the deer dropped with them! My 6.8SPC AR carbine is a great brush gun...and has the "oomph" to drop them out to 300yrds (though others have made clean kills at over 400yrds, and dropped elk at 300yrds).
 
your really not missing anything, they can be fun to shoot but you can say that about any semi auto, they have alot of accessories so you can add a bunch of junk thats not really needed if you wanted, and your not stuck with 5.56/223 you have several options on different calibers like 7.62 x 39 and other more expensive odd ball rounds that works with the short 223 magwell.
 
I'll throw in my 2 cents. They are fun! I just got my first one and it is a blast to shoot. I had a lot of exposure to the AR platform at USMC OCS and just wanted one for myself. It is also good to know that they are endlessly customizable. And if I want to get a new caliber down the road, it is pretty easy/cheap with a new upper. But the .223/5.56 cartridge is an excellent one. I look at it this way: it can either be a rather expensive (over .22LR) but much more fun plinker, or it can be a rather cheap (instead of .308 or other cartridge) option for long-range practice. Or drop a .22LR conversion kit in and it is as cheap as it gets, or drop a new upper on it and get more bang. It can also fill HD roles, 3-gun, etc. What's not to like?
 
I don't understand the question. It is too broad. AR15 is not a rifle. It is a broad class of all sorts of rifles.

It's like asking if a "truck" is worth the price. Be more specific. The answer depends on which "truck" you are talking about, and purpose you intend for it. Some will be worth it, some will not.
__________________

BeerSleeper is Probably the only one who answered your question correctly.
 
No one can answer that question for you. Go find one and shoot it. The .223 is no "do all" round and certainly won't replace your 7mm and up rifles but the AR has a spot in my safe and fills many many purposes quite nicely for a lot of folks including the military.
 
I bought a DPMS sweet 16". I love this rifle. And I love the AR platform!
I shot a deer with my .223 this year, dropped it where it stood. Plenty of power.
It is more fun and easier to shoot than another rifle i've ever had. I like my 10-22 but mainly because it's soooo cheep to shoot. If had a AR .22 conversion I would never shoot the 10-22.
It's so easy to take down. Just awesome platform.
I paid about $900 for my DPMS with a hogue grip and fluted SS barrel.

You'll love it. The only problem you'll have is that you will want more ammo to shoot, but I have that problem with every gun I have.
 
Well I can tell by the many replies that I have opened the proverbeable can of worms. When I asked "worth the price"? , one of the gentleman I was referring to; has over $1800. bucks in his gun (his only gun) and $100 bucks on ammo every trip to the range. If I was gonna spend that much I think it would be on an M1A. I told him about reloading but he's not interested, I handload and shoot a bunch of different calibers all the time (rifle & pistol ) at ranges out to 300yds. I personally limit myself to that distance, as I haven't had the opportunity to shoot farther (my local range is 300 max). I can see this is an emotional subject for black gun owners, I probably feel the same emotion for my vintage mausers, which I truly enjoy to tinker with and reload for and shoot. I will try to get to the range with my friend and see what I'm missing, Thanks for all the input !!
 
Worth it?

You said it right when you said Mauser. Same thing.

AR owners can have a gun they know has been "used" in combat and proven. Not every Mauser has, although undoubtedly far more - that's all because of the "full auto" factor that cannot be sidestepped by any future generation. But, the AR is definitely in the same genre.

If you're one of the 25 million prior service, you know the gun - well enough to likely disassemble and assemble it in the dark.

The "worth" is appreciated by those of us who have used them side by side, so to speak, over the years - M16 in service, and civilian gun hunting on our time. Better yet, if some of those guns were other service rifles.

I've been trained on and shot the 03A3, 98K, G43, M14/M1A, HK91, Rem 700, Win 94, 10/22, and M16, A1, and A2, along with MG's, grenade launchers, and anti tank weapons. I'm certainly no expert, but handle enough of them, and what doesn't work is what you remember as being particularly irksome.

Manual action guns impede getting another shot - you lose the sight picture jerking the action around and getting your face out of the way. Safeties need to be where you can work them easily. Scopes should mount right where you look, not straining your neck or accepting a combination of flimsy pieces that offset the sight picture. The action should help the shooter load, not make things worse by forcing the magazine against a closed bolt, or even worse, then charging it because it's closed on an empty chamber.

Last but not least, it should have acceptable recoil and enough power to do the job. Getting beaten by recoil and having to "recover" from it to regain the sight picture is exactly why so many don't go shooting as often as they do - or substitute "fun" guns like the 10/22.

Frankly, the AR15 has addressed a lot of what is wrong with older types of actions, and assembled more of what is right than any other. That seems to annoy some, because it makes shooting it easy. I don't know why that's a problem - seems like all their trucks at the range have auto transmissions, power steering, a/c, stereo, and can practically park themself. But their manly rifles have crank turn bolts, a rare tree died for the stock, and they chose the worst finish possible to maintain, blued steel, which consumes all sorts of carcenogenic petroleum compounds to preserve.

I don't even clean my AR, anymore than I clean the deck on my mower.

That's why I think the AR is worth it - it helps me to shoot it and makes it fun. So I built one to hunt with, a foliage green A1 fixed stock, A3 flattop dissipator with rifle handguards. Its the best hunting gun by far than any other I've used, and that alone makes it worth it.
 
tahoe2 said:
I can see this is an emotional subject for black gun owners, I probably feel the same emotion for my vintage mausers, which I truly enjoy to tinker with and reload for and shoot. I will try to get to the range with my friend and see what I'm missing, Thanks for all the input !!

What something is "worth" is a very personal definition. I own several ARs as they are enjoyable to work on and as mentioned, like the gun-owner's "barbie doll" with the amount of accessories you can add on. I think ARs are over-priced, but still a good investment if you want a decent range/self-defense rifle. Some get pretty protective, but it's just a rifle that's been used for some time and is effective at what it does. What is nice, is that .223 is relatively inexpensive and if you do want to hunt in a state that doesn't allow hunting with .223, you can buy and upper in a hunting-sized caliber.

ROCK6
 
towerdog said:
I am curious in a lot of posts I see guys that say the AR is great for 100 yards, I shot expert in the USMC with open sites and every Marine is required to qualify at 500 yards as part of the range. The AR platform with good optics is a lot of fun to shoot at 500 yards. My eyes are no longer good for open sites at that range.

towerdog, welcome to THR and that's a good question.

yes, it's possible (and with an acog, pretty dang easy) to make hits at 500 yrds with an AR15. i do it all the time and have a lot of fun. The NM course for CMP/NRA HP also includes 20 rounds slow fire prone from 600 yrds at a 6" x-ring (with iron sights and a sling).

The posts you're seeing though, reflect a conventional wisdom that started years ago when some terminal ballistics reports were issued on the M193 and M855 rounds. The nut was, those rounds do damage by fragmenting instead of expanding like a handgun or big-game rifle round. In order to get "reliable fragmentation" you need speed. specifically, around 2400 fps (if i recall correctly, which I probably don't... feel free to correct me if anyone has the stat handy). And the basic issue was that when we went from the 20" A2 barrel (that the Marines were quite fond of) to the 14.5" M4 barrel, the velocity loss meant that the actual distance from the muzzle where you'd get "reliable fragmentation" was shockingly-short. it's an "effective range" statement, which doesn't mean anyone would volunteer to stand in front of it even 600 yrds away.

none of that really matters if you switch from military rounds to hunting rounds or something like Hornady TAP. or if you stick to a 20" barrel.
 
I'm an AK guy but AR's are cool... I have a Sig Sauer 516 piston platform, well actually it's my wifes rifle... I bought it for her cuz I don't like to clean too much.... It's definetly more accurate than my AK's... That being said I shoot for fun, so the less I need to maintain the better... Sig Sauer also has a direct impingement AR called the Sig M400 which is cheaper in price and has the classic look...
 
Towerdog, piggy-backing off of Taliv's post here's some data MK 262 Mod 1 Ballistics from ar15.com's ammo oracle: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest6/Test6.htm. Note in the charts how that extra inch & one half (16" bbl length) on most civvy M4geries vs. the 14.5" bbl on a real M4 pushes the fragmentation threshold out another 50 yards. It should give you an idea 18" bbl. DMRs and 20" bbl M16 series rifles will do.
 
kalashnikovluv said:
no an ar 15 is a nice rifle at the range only! it is a 22 caliber bullet with no stopping power.

I would only ask what combat experience you have referenced. I've personally seen the damage the diminutive ".22" can cause and it's not pretty. I even had one Soldier shot by another (ND)...went through three tents, a wooden door, into a full duffle bag...exiting and ricocheting off an aluminum cot leg into the lower leg (approximately 75 meters according to the investigators). It still tore out a fist size chunk of flesh and ended the kid’s tour. So unless, you’ve been shot or have seen the first hand damage of a particular caliber (hunting included), don’t criticize what you can’t back up.

ROCK6
 
And as a teaching point in ballistics, the average .30-30 lever action is more powerful than the 7.62x39 AK shooting issue ammo. And likely more accurate.

One of the advantages of the AR is the use of alternative cartridges - it can be had in dozens of others. You can get the ballistic performance you need out of it, with lethality out to 500m, accuracy out to 600m easily - and that's milspec 5.56. If you prefer to boost power 40% to have a longer effective range of lethality over 1000 foot pounds, then 6.8 and 6.5G can do that, with much flatter trajectories making the shooter more accurate, compared to most intermediate .30's.

And that means you get the advantage of using a gun that can be loaded with the bolt back, that charges it with the offhand, all while keeping a finger near the trigger and using the thumb to push off the safety.

Want to see why most combat weapons have all adopted the ergonomic layout of the M16? Put your favorite gun on a table, 10 bullets spaced out either loose or in mags one each, as necessary. Do the same on another table with the AR. Against the clock, action open (if you can,) load and accurately fire each gun.

The AR will dominate. You monkey with it less, more time to place the shot, and get done faster. It's just like the difference starting your car in the morning - and we all went electric start a long time ago. Saves broken arms hand-cranking a low compression 4 cylinder, too. It was called "Model T elbow."
 
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