Full Metal Jacket
member
this round is loaded with seirra jhp's. not sure if it was different 15 years ago though. think it was always a seirra.
Are Hornady XTP's [still] a top performer?
- Thread starter gofastman
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this round is loaded with seirra jhp's. not sure if it was different 15 years ago though. think it was always a seirra.
And what do you base this claim on?
fourdollarbill
Member
I like the XTP and I can guarantee it will kill the bad guy regardless of the FBI testing created by an entrepreneur in the bullet market. When they run out of technology then they turn to semantics and marketing gimmicks to sell their bullets.
An FBI agent is not going to take the time to determine which bullet to use while in a gun battle. "Oh crap he has a jacket with two shirts under it" "I should change ammo to the "two shirt and jacket" type because I was shooting at him with the "through a car door ammo" type earlier.
An FBI agent is not going to take the time to determine which bullet to use while in a gun battle. "Oh crap he has a jacket with two shirts under it" "I should change ammo to the "two shirt and jacket" type because I was shooting at him with the "through a car door ammo" type earlier.
What I've heard here, sort of reflects what I've researched.
I looked into the XTP about 2-3 months ago and found that they expand beautifully IF they don't clog up with anything. But that they have a nasty tendency to clog up with heavy clothing and fail to expend.
those who have great experience hunting with them... well, that makes sense. ANimals don't usually wear heavy clothing that clogs bullets, and as I said, without clothing, the bullets expand beautifully.
More modern rounds like the Gold Dot, HST, and especially the Hornady Critical Defense are much better at coping with barriers and clothing.
This is all based on the overall value of opinions and research I have read. No, i can't point to anything specific, so take it for what it's worth.
I looked into the XTP about 2-3 months ago and found that they expand beautifully IF they don't clog up with anything. But that they have a nasty tendency to clog up with heavy clothing and fail to expend.
those who have great experience hunting with them... well, that makes sense. ANimals don't usually wear heavy clothing that clogs bullets, and as I said, without clothing, the bullets expand beautifully.
More modern rounds like the Gold Dot, HST, and especially the Hornady Critical Defense are much better at coping with barriers and clothing.
This is all based on the overall value of opinions and research I have read. No, i can't point to anything specific, so take it for what it's worth.
SharpsDressedMan
member
There are no magic bullets that perform as intended, all the time. Anything CAN get clogged up and not expand, and it is just a plus if it works as intended.
Sapper771
Member
I have not had any problems with them, but I have not tested them to the extent that some have.
Mr.Camp uses an excellent handload with the 9mm 124gr XTP (6.0gr Unique, COAL- 1.11"). I have tried it in my G17 and G19 and I am thoroughly impressed with the accuracy and performance. It clocks right around 1250 fps out of my G17. I have not had a chance to test it out on anything soft yet.
Mr.Camp uses an excellent handload with the 9mm 124gr XTP (6.0gr Unique, COAL- 1.11"). I have tried it in my G17 and G19 and I am thoroughly impressed with the accuracy and performance. It clocks right around 1250 fps out of my G17. I have not had a chance to test it out on anything soft yet.
NavyLCDR
member
Full Metal Jacket said:
Then why do bench rest competition shooters use reloads when every millimeter of point of impact counts and one fail to fire can lose a competition?
Reloads, when done properly, are MORE reliable than factory ammo. Every aspect of the assembly of the cartridge can be double-checked and controlled to the nth degree by the reloader. Factory ammo is assembled by machines and only a sample of the final product is examined for quality control. A careful reloader has many times over the quality control than a factory does.
The Bushmaster
Member
I'm with the Liutenant...25 years of reloading and I have NOT had (not even one) fail to down range.
I carry my Reloads in my SD weapon...
I carry my Reloads in my SD weapon...
Please tell me what you base that on......
Results.
It's been used by many federal, state, and local agencies in many, many shootings with positive outcomes. The round works and works well, that's the reason that is still in use today by numerous agencies in spite of the newer loads on the LE market.
With all due respect to the NavyLT, I say that sincerely as a retired Chief, benchrest competitions do not have peoples lives depending on the outcome. If a round does not go downrange then all you have is a day in which you lost the opportunity to win a match. While I do not necessarily agree with you concerning the quality control issue, I will submit that theoretically it should be possible for one supremely focused person to produce a round that is more reliable than one which you can purchase. The problem is that not everyone seems to be as dedicated as Bushmaster is in achieving results.
I will put it another way. Aston Martin hand builds there cars, and while they are certainly beautiful, they are not known for their reliability. Honda on the other hand is a heavily automated manufacturer with the best quality control in the business. I realize that a car is far more complicated than some brass, lead, and powder but I think you see my point.
Now having said all of that, I do not carry handloads for legal reasons. I guess that I spent the last 5 years I was in the Coast Guard with too many lawyers. One that I respect very much told me that he does not carry handloads in his weapon due to liability issues and that is good enough reason for me not to as well.
I will put it another way. Aston Martin hand builds there cars, and while they are certainly beautiful, they are not known for their reliability. Honda on the other hand is a heavily automated manufacturer with the best quality control in the business. I realize that a car is far more complicated than some brass, lead, and powder but I think you see my point.
Now having said all of that, I do not carry handloads for legal reasons. I guess that I spent the last 5 years I was in the Coast Guard with too many lawyers. One that I respect very much told me that he does not carry handloads in his weapon due to liability issues and that is good enough reason for me not to as well.
Jonah71
Member
I'm completely sold on them. Carry them in most of my handguns.
I'm shocked-shocked, I tell you- to learn that my 500 rnds of .45ACP 230gr XTP's are now worthless. Guess I'll go pitch them in the trash because something new is on the market.
Seriously, XTP's work in my Kimber and are very accurate. A .45 cal. hole is still a big hole. Expansion is a bonus. I'm not against progress but I don't have to have the latest and greatest.
Seriously, XTP's work in my Kimber and are very accurate. A .45 cal. hole is still a big hole. Expansion is a bonus. I'm not against progress but I don't have to have the latest and greatest.
buck460XVR
Member
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Funny....I know a local D.A. that loads his nightstand gun with his handloads. Guess what that says is one should use what they feel the most confident with and what works best in THEIR gun. A good shoot is a good shoot....period. Now go out and look for trouble with mercury filled hollow points or lead bullets with a large cross cut in them from the huge Bowie knife you carry in your boot, you may have a problem..........
Can you name some of the more prominent ones that still use it?
And I was referring to your "90% one stop shots" fiction.....
According to the ATK/Federal sales rep for New England, Nassau, Suffolk, and Genessee Counties all use 9BPLE. Dekalb County, Georgia did up til last year anyway, I don't know if they still do.
Of course, I carry them on the job, though I'm not part of a prominent agency.
I didn't post that but, according to the Marshall/Sanow study, the 9BPLE load was quite effective with 91% "one shot stops".
Dekalb County had a banner year in '06 with something like 20 officer involved shootings, the majority were one stop shots.
I don't know why this is such an issue for you that you brought the thread back after two months, but I've backed up my statements. If you doubt anything else you can look it up yourself.
Not much of a list, and I'm not sure if it's even current. Next time I talk to Ira I'll ask him. He's a good salesman, I doubt he's let those NY agencies stay in the BPLE. Not with NYPD being in the much more effective Gold Dot for so long. Regardless, the vast majority of agencies that used the +P+ 115 grain rounds switched out of them years ago, because they didn't perform like famous gunwriters, with financial stakes in ammunition companies, claimed they did.
Yeah....figured......
Just in case you might want to catch up.....
http://www.firearmstactical.com/marshall-sanow-statistical-analysis.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm
Link?
Hearsay about a couple of agencies that might still use them, and references to a long ago debunked piece of fiction, hardly qualifies as "backing up" your statement on 9BLE,
Why is it an issue for me? Because baloney spread around about wound ballistics and terminal performance, got a lot of cops killed over the years.
Please, tell me what you base that on.... links?
The 9BPLE was a good load then, it's a good load now. Is it the latest gee whiz round to come out? No. But that doesn't mean it isn't capable of doing the job. Just because something is new doesn't mean everybody has to drop what they've got and change. The 1911 and .45 ball aren't the first choice for a lot of folks but the combo still works.
Anyway, instead of just trying to tear down or debunk everything being said here, how about you offer up some options with the info to back up why it's worth changing.
The amount of shootings I'm familiar with where loads like 9BLE, Silvertip, "Treasury" .38 Special 110 +P+, and other low penetration, lightweight rounds, failed to produce incapacitation. Reading and participating in actual studies by scientists like Fackler, Wolberg, Boone, Roberts, etc., that showed us why a handgun projectile works or doesn't. Working in law enforcement, with firearms and wound ballistics, for more than 30 years.
I realize that's not as good as reading every gun magazine that comes out, but it's the best I can do.
You're barking up the wrong tree. .38 special 158 Semi wadcutters performed better than the "gee whiz" rounds like I mentioned did. Newer, certainly doesn't always mean better.
Works for what?
Did .45 ball kill a lot of guys? Sure. So did 9mm ball, and .22 long rifle. Does that mean any of those are good choices for self defense? Nope.
Sorry, Colonel.......
I came here asking you where you got your info, but I think law enforcement's wholesale change from lightweight high speed pistol bullets, especially in the agencies that actually studied the effects of them, is a pretty good indication of their effectiveness.
Options? It's a great time to be in the market for self defense pistol ammunition. All the majors make effective rounds. Just avoid the mistakes of the past and you'll do fine.
BlindJustice
Member
I like the XTPs - I also read either on a forum or in a review that comparing current XTPs to older XTPs it seems the hollow point cavity
has changed. It seems to me manufacturers would have continued
development of products Hornady offers the XTP in a plainn XTP, and
XTP TAP versions at different velocities. It has always enjoyed a good
rep. for accuracy and being a tough design for penetration.
IMO
Randall
has changed. It seems to me manufacturers would have continued
development of products Hornady offers the XTP in a plainn XTP, and
XTP TAP versions at different velocities. It has always enjoyed a good
rep. for accuracy and being a tough design for penetration.
IMO
Randall
I don't think anyone is arguing that XTPs won't work well or that they should be thrown away (hyperbole much?).
Most of the testing using FBI protocols (best that we have at this point) has shown that the Gold Dot, Ranger, and HST rounds perform more reliably through a variety of different barriers. They really are better rounds, and yet, the XTP is still a very decent round.
Most of the testing using FBI protocols (best that we have at this point) has shown that the Gold Dot, Ranger, and HST rounds perform more reliably through a variety of different barriers. They really are better rounds, and yet, the XTP is still a very decent round.
I got a 200lbs doe with the 158gr XTP, (357,) last winter. At 65 yards, the shot went between the ribs, pierced the heart/lungs, breaking a rib on exit. The exit hole was about 3/4". The deer ran less than 100 yards before collapsing. I would think it would do the same on a human.
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Shadow 7D
Member
I like them as they are affordable, and I can BUY THEM
Unlike many "proprietary" HP like federals, I can buy these and reload, hence I can afford to shoot the 200-500 many authorities claim needed to establish reliability.
Unlike many "proprietary" HP like federals, I can buy these and reload, hence I can afford to shoot the 200-500 many authorities claim needed to establish reliability.
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