Are our troops using AK47s in Iraq now? (pic)

[Mick]

 

[George S.]

Some special units (Special Forces for example)are trained in the use of most foreign-made weapons. Given the popularity of the AK-47 and its derivitives, it's easily obtainable and ammo would be very easy to get. If a troop had to pick up an enemy weapon in order to survive on a battlefield, he should know how to use it.

From the pic, it's pretty hard to say what sort of a unit these guys are from or even why they would be carrying AK's. Did Fox News have a story to go with the pic??

 

[Mick]

Yeah its on the front page but didnt give much context to the pic...

 

[Mick]

I take that back the caption reads:

Sept. 29: Iraqi National Guards aim their guns as they participate in a raid at Sheikh Maroof neighborhood of Baghdad.

I thought they were our troops...

 

[Greg L]

They're SEALs trying to haul their boat back to the water .

 

[FPrice]

Hillbilly had a post on this pic...

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103811

 

[Bridger]

I do believe htey woule be Iraqi National Guardsmen. Our troops no longer wear the "chocolate chip" pattern uniforms as far as I know. Everything is three-color desert or MARPAT.

 

[RKCheung]

I do believe htey woule be Iraqi National Guardsmen. Our troops no longer wear the "chocolate chip" pattern uniforms as far as I know. Everything is three-color desert or MARPAT.

Yes, you are correct. I don't know if those are ING or not, but they are definitely not US troops.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

When I was in Egypt for Brightstar in 2001, many of the reserve units still had the chocloate chip desert cammies

 

[Edmond]

Maybe it's just President Bush's way of cutting expenses down?

 

[Ryan1021]

Those are some nice AK underfolders.

 

[Bridger]

Sergeant Sabre,

You would know more about it than I, I'm just going on what I've seen. Heck I've even seen 3 color desert on the ARNG troops at Grand Central station!

 

[Michigander]

Those Iraqi troops are looking good. I hope they get and maintain good leadership there.

 

[Bainx]

A couple of guys in line behind me at the last gun show in Knoxville, claimed to have just gotten back from Iraq. One had the marines logo tatooed on his arm for what that is worth.
Nonetheless, they both swore up and down that our guys are using AKs in quite large numbers in the areas outside of the big cities where blowing grit is more of a problem.

heck, who was I to insinuate that they were lying?

 

[gundam007]

Maybe they are "Military Contractors"? they are often equipped with their own weapons.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Heck, way back last summer, there were news stories on how underarmed troops (like 4-man tanks crews, in Humvees, that only were issued 4 pistols and 2 M-16s) were allowed to use confiscated AKs.

Here's one: http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/special_reports/iraq/story/978295p-6862352c.html

More U.S. troops using confiscated AK-47 rifles
By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press
Last Updated 11:24 am PDT Sunday, August 24, 2003
BAQOUBA, Iraq (AP) - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.
Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.

U.S. troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them.

The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. But they are short on rifles.

A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tank's firepower for protection.

But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential.

"We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers. So in certain circumstances we allow soldiers to have an AK-47. They have to demonstrate some proficiency with the weapon ... demonstrate an ability to use it," said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.

"Normally an armor battalion is fighting from its tanks. Well, we are not fighting from our tanks right now," Young said. "We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, there's no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged."

In Humvees, on tanks - but never openly on base - U.S. soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world.

The AK is favored by many of the world's fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently.

Now U.S. troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use - and they like what they see.

Some complain that standard U.S. military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraq's dusty environment. Many say the AK has better "knockdown" power and can kill with fewer shots.

"The kind of war we are in now ... you want to be able to stop the enemy quick," said Sgt. 1st Class Tracy S. McCarson of Newport News, Va., an army scout, who carries an AK in his Humvee.

Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has "some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons," McCarson said.

Most U.S. soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 - a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s - is better for long distance, precision shooting.

But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Or they are raiding houses, taking on enemies at close-quarters.

Two weeks ago, Sgt. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. It was dark, the road narrow. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass.

Bailey, who couldn't see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. The choice was simple.

"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.

Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK - they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.

"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.

Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."

Staff Sgt. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when he's out of his tank.

And the AK's durability has impressed him.

"They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work," Perez said.

 

[Rebeldon]

Those Iraqi fellers look like badasses! Now that we are training them, they ought to have a force better than any other Arab force. They are certainly better trained now than they ever have been. Ole Saddam's Republican Guard will pale in comparison. This ought to give them some pride. But instead of being an army of tyranny, hopefully, they will secure their new freedom and give them peace for a long time.

 

[Nippy]

What about those armored vehicles in the background? ING's too ??

 

[Blackhawk 6]

It is not a matter of training, it is a matter of will. We have been training the Saudi's for years and they are far from a fearsome fighting force.

 

[WT]

Matt Payne is right. This is old news.

Last year there weren't enough M16's and M4's to go around once our treadheads and artillerymen were assigned infantry duties. They picked up AK's which have served them well.

 

[Warbow]

Yeah, that's old news, except the picture isn't of US troops, they're ING.

Soldiers of 303 battalion of Iraqi National Guard aim their guns as they participate in a raid at Sheikh Maroof neighborhood on Haifa street, Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday Sept. 29, 2004. Six terrorists, linked with recent car bomb attacks on Haifa street that killed scores of prospective and serving Iraqi policemen, were arrested along with a large cache of arms and explosives. (AP Photo/Imad Akrawi)

Here's a few more:

Soldiers with the Iraqi National Guard's 303rd battalion aim their guns as they conduct a raid in the Sheikh Maroof neighborhood on Haifa street, Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday Sept. 29, 2004. Six suspected terrorists, thought to be linked to recent car bomb attacks on Haifa street that killed scores of prospective and serving Iraqi policemen, were arrested along with a large cache of arms and explosives. (AP Photo/Imad Akrawi)

An Iraqi National Guard at the entrance of the northern Iraqi town of Tall Afar. The United States referred to the Iraqi government any questions on operations in the town of Tall Afar, which has Turkey concerned.(AFP/File/Mujahed Mohammed)

Members of the Iraqi security forces secure the scene, following an attack against the local commander of the Iraqi National Guard near the town of Baquba, some 65 km south of the capital Baghdad, September 11, 2004. REUTERS/Faris Al-Mahdawi

 

[moa]

What kind of accuracy can you get out of AK47 or its clones once it has been zeroed in? Are the sights any good? I have read that the M16A2 is highly accurate, and the AK47 is not.

Also, with the 62 grain M885 (SS109) round, the M16 is supposedly 40% more powerful than 7.62x51 NATO round, and is capable of penetrating our old style steel helments at 800 meters. I would think that would make it even more powerful over the 7.62x39 Soviet AK47 round. Or, at least, that is what I read and assume.

 

[shoobe01]

A .223 is never going to be more "powerful" on any scale I can imagine, than a .308.

800 yds is a long ways for a .223. I doubt it. But maybe, as the old steel helmet was only marginally fragment proof. Even the original PASGT wasn't designed to stop direct-fire bullets.

AK-series weapons are, when properly made and maintained, around the same precision and accuracy as any other military issue weapon. This is, however, from a machine rest. They have those silly buckhorn sights, with a tiny radius, etc. A peep is going to give better accuracy, and a ghost ring better speed with reasonable accuracy.



Anyone noticed that people in PASGT/MICH always look american, but the same guys in field caps suddenly don't. Are we just used to all our men wearing those helmets, or did we somehow make the most "american" helmet possible?

 

[Zach S]

A Marine at the range last weekend said US troops with an AK isnt common, but not unusual either.

 

[czhen]

Question

I'm sorry I couldn't held.
Question is?
what kind the AK-47 are pre or post-pre-post-pre ban

FL