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are there da bp revolvers

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by spuscg, Sep 28, 2008.

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  1. spuscg

    spuscg member

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    id love to buy a double action for some range fun and self defense, and a single action for lots of fun (doesnt hurt that its 150$)
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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  3. spuscg

    spuscg member

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    its more an age thing with me id buy a model 19 if iwas 21
     
  4. oneshooter

    oneshooter Member

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    The Adams & Trantor was an English double action percussion revolver. The revolver had 2 triggers, the lower operating the cylender and hammer and the upper releasing the hammer. There were a few repops built a number of years ago, but I haven't seen for sale in a long time.

    I would post a pic, but the "manage attachments" dosn't seem to be operating.

    Oneshooter
    Livin in Texas
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    If you are too young to buy a Model 19, buying a BP revolver for self-defense probably isn't a very good idea either.

    rcmodel
     
  6. FSCJedi

    FSCJedi Member

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    I believe to the contrary, rcmodel. If he or she is not yet 21, buying a C&B revolver may be the only option for a self-defense pistol. If it is for home defense, though, I would recommend a shotgun since it is easily purchased, easily cleaned, and easy to learn to use accurately.
     
  7. spuscg

    spuscg member

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    i do have a shotgun. it is my hd gun. i need A. pistol marksmanship practice. B. hunting sidearm. c. carry weapon in iffy neighborhoods
     
  8. pohill

    pohill Member

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    I've said this before, and sometimes it starts a CrapStorm, but just because you do not need a permit to buy or own a BP revolver, it does not mean that you are able to carry it as a concealed weapon. Maybe I'm wrong concerning your state or region but you should check it out before you get into some trouble.
     
  9. spuscg

    spuscg member

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    concealed weapons permit is shall issue 18and up and open carry state, although id only oc in the woods hunting
     
  10. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

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    Back to the OP...there were several DA revolvers. The British-made Adams and Tranter designs were the most popular, but the Starr was also made. The only repro available is of a Starr - and they have a lot of problems.

    My advice is to buy a repro Remington. Contact the North-South Skirmish Association - they are the experts with the percussion revolvers.
     
  11. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I believe the .38 Spl may have originally been a black powder round, so some older DA Colts and S&Ws may fit the bill.

    Cartridges, but black powder rounds.
     
  12. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2008
  13. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2008
  14. bonza

    bonza Member

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    Here's my DA C&B revolver. It's a very nicely made copy of an Adams. Five shot .34 caliber, engraved, with a lanyard ring on bottom of grip.
    I think it's European, but there's not a single manufacturer's or proof mark anywhere on it, so I think that would rule out England or Beligium.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    The '51 Cooper DA is resembles the 1851 Marshall or Sheriff...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    SG
     
  16. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Smokin Gun,

    Thanks for this '51 Cooper. I saw one a decade or mor ago at the Air Force Armaments Museum near Ft.Walton Florida and my Google Fu was not strong enough to find out a thing about it. I seem to recall the card Identified it as a .36 cal Cooper and nothing else and no one there that day knew didly about it.

    I did wonder how they could fit a DA mechanism into what appeared to be a Colt 1851 sized frame.

    Were they DA Only or selectively with SA?

    How many were made and through what dates?

    Have there been any repros?

    more! More!

    BTW you seem to have triple posted, though the first post failed to show the Cooper.

    -Bob Hollingsworth
     
  17. Tomahawk674

    Tomahawk674 Member

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    That double action cooper is amazing, how come they weren't tremendously popular, or enter service in the civil war?

    Was the DA mechanism not reliable enough?
     
  18. pohill

    pohill Member

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    This is my double action/lever action Savage & North
    [​IMG]

    I'd like to find one of these (any relation to the owner, Bob Hollingsworth?)
    [​IMG]
    ...Rare Prototype Colt Model 1860 Army Percussion Revolver with Mershon & Hollingsworth Cocking Device
    Serial no. 3803, .44 caliber. Standard cylinder and 7 1/2-inch barrel with New York markings. Custom brass frame with case-hardened hammer and oil-finished walnut grips. Right side of frame with circular German silver fitting inscribed: Mershon & Hollingsworth/Sept. 8th 1863. Left side of frame fitted with wheel-shaped steel panel cocking device with folding rim. Evidently designed to create a self-cocking revolver similar to the later British Fosbery revolver. Rear of frame with fire-blued lever engaging the hammer and evidently serving as a safety. Elongated hammer.....

    http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=22463.0
     
  19. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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  20. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I believe the Starr was originally a double action, BUT they went quickly to making a single-action as the double had some function problems. Due to patents, it's capable of replacing a whole cylinder as with a Remington, but swiveled the barrel away from the reciever to release the cylinder, instead of removing a pin as with the Remington.

    The repros are single action variety I believe.

    LD
     
  21. Timthinker

    Timthinker Member

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    My understanding is some replica Starr revolvers are double-action, although some single-action models are also available. I believe Pietta offers a DA Starr revolver. Some of our members may wish to check and confirm this.

    As for the accuracy of a DA Starr revolver, I have no direct experience with one. Perhaps one of our members can shed some light on this subject.


    Timthinker
     
  22. kBob

    kBob Member

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    pohill,

    I do not think this inventor or manufacturer is kin but this might be worth looking into.

    Semi good idea with overly complex execution, obscurity and a market failure......well maybe he was kin at that.

    -Bob Hollingsworth
     
  23. kBob

    kBob Member

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    SMokin Gun,

    Thanks again. Does look like the frame is a bit deeper in thatlinked shots. I note only one screw by the trigger where the Colt has two.

    Given the number produced maybe some repro outfit SHOULD consider making a modern repro. Use as many 1849 parts as possible and just make those parts necessary to make the change over.

    -Bob Hollingsworth
     
  24. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Loyalist Dave,

    The problem with the DA Starr is that it was more expensive than a SA and delivery time was not as fast.

    The Union Army asked for the change to have a cheaper and more reliable source of handguns.

    -Bob Hollingsworth
     
  25. mainmech48

    mainmech48 Member

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    The "trigger-cocking" mechanism on the Starr is relatively delicate, but most of the parts failures I've seen are due to folks trying to operate it incorrectly.

    Generally, they've tried to operate it by thumb-cocking the hammer, something the design doesn't have any provision for. Doing so damages the action and ruins the spring that allows the sear and its releasing lever to engage the hammer.

    The difference between the Starr's system and (for want of a better term) "conventional" DA mechanisms is that the hammer must be cocked via the trigger. All that little "selector" on the guard does is stop the sear release (the "real" trigger) from being tripped "automatically" at the end of the cocking stroke.

    Briefly, to use the "SA" firing mode the "trigger" is drawn back until the cylinder has rotated to the next chamber and the hammer has been engaged by the sear. The trigger finger must then move to the sear lever (that little gizmo at the very rear inside the guard, the "real" trigger) and release it manually.

    While you might be able to pick up a repro that somebody's broken in the $150 range, repairs aren't generally a DIY project unless you're highly skilled and intimately familiar with how the Starr system is supposed to work. Parts are expensive and hard to come by, and adding the cost of having a competent professional do the work would almost certainly erase any 'savings' over the retail cost of a new repro, and then some.

    If you are prohibited from carrying a modern handgun, openly or concealed for whatever reason due to a statutory age restriction don't expect to be cut any slack whatsoever by any LEO or court for doing so with a C&B handgun. While they may not be subject to the same sales, etc. restrictions, they're still considered to be "deadly weapons" and subject to the same carry and usage rules as anyone's 1911 in most all jurisdictions.

    I'd highly recommend that you choose not to open that particular can of worms.
     
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