Are these AK's any good?

[.zerocool.]

Hey guys. woot second post, and it's something that I'm worth a damn with. AK's yeee.

Ok, the scoop. New ak's, I'd have to say Saiga and Arsenol take the crown. Many many times over. I love my Saigas and they are literally brand spankin new, not remans.

Now, I figured I'd set the story straight on ak's by linking you to an article... from a site that IMO has the best rep out of any site around. It's not a forum, so no hard feelings about me linking you here. If your in the market for an AK... please, and I mean PLEASE read this first. It will give you ALL the information you need, in one tiny, sexy, pictures included article.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_akexce_201007/index.html

(btw, it's an article more aimed/ based on the arsenol ak, BUT it gives you everything you need to look for in an AK when you are thinking of picking one up. IE, you won't buy a pos... you will know what to look for when you buy one, regardless of brand. (but I have to say, Saiga is still up there with Arsenol!).

Have at it boys!

 

[1stmarine]

Nalioth,
I know, I have them all converted by myself. I started almost 3 years ago.
Read the ENTIRE post before you reply...

Girodin,
You are 100% right this step is not needed in the .308. The trigger is all one piece connected by a long wish bone to the rest of the group vs. the other saigas that use a cantilever and those pins are for that cantilever to work. In the .308 though you need to shave the hammer hump as it interferes with the front post, at least with the G2 trigger groups. Same issue with the saiga shotguns.

 

[1stmarine]

.zerocool.
Saigas are 100% russian and as good as any AK choice. The russian steel is supreme. Considering you can get one still at good deals convert one for very little vs. buying the Romanian junkyard systems some they are selling.
The first one I got was a Saiga in 7.62x39 almost 4 years ago for $167.
today they are already more than double.

All good stuff. successfully proven over and over again.

 

[.zerocool.]

Yea, the Saigas are made in the same plant as the Kalashnikov AK47 in Russia. So basically, not only does it not get more authentic than that, the tolerances and qc are identical to the actual Kalashnikov AK47.


Personally, I like the Saiga SKS's more than the Saiga AK47 based guns, just because well, an SKS made so good, is just such a sexy thing IMO


I've owned a 7.62 saiga SKS but got bored with it and felt like jumping up to a Saiga 20 (so I could deer hunt with it!. Talk about an efficient and "evil" slugger )


Reason I always mention Saiga. But then again, sometimes I skip over mentioning siaga because generally in cities in california and other huge urban areas, "noobie kids" are known to get saigas and be irresponsible with them. But for a gun educated adult, a Saiga is a great addition to any firearm collection. Well, as well as the Arsenol ak's.

Like you said, buyers should beware of companies claiming to sell new ak's, that in reality are poorly cleaned military surplus ak's that who knows how the original user(s) took care of them. Regardless, any AK will normally fire, no matter how "bunk" the modifications or treatment was, but if your looking for something that hits the target every time, and runs like an AR performance wise, nothing beats a brand spankin' new factory gun like an Arsenol or Saiga. I guess in the end you get what you pay for, especially for AK's.

And yea, in states that have looser / lighter gun laws, 200-500$ is going rate for Saigas of any type, and in states like California where you need to modify the gun, they run upwards of 6-900 and up. In fact I have never seen a Saiga sell for less than 500 used in California. Kinda sad being the msrp is about 350ish on them.

 

[1stmarine]

zerocool,
saiga SKS? I lost you there.

A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia
A SKS is a Simonov action .

Would you explain what the Saiga SKS system is?
Many Thanks.

 

[.zerocool.]

Uh, the Saiga sks is an SKS design, made by Saiga in the same factory as the AK. I never said the SKS was an AK design, I just said I owned one and liked it. They function the same as the Saiga ak... which is flawless. *no not function by an engineering standpoint, function as in the gun being reliable, and flawless in action*

Outside of the one I had, and the few at the gun shop, I haven't seen them many other places. Generally it's only the Saiga AK's you see, but occasionally you see a Saiga SKS pop up. Don't know if it was a limited run, a hobby run of one of the employees or what.

Saiga makes more than just AK's. They make more than just shotguns. What is available in the US markets is also different to what they sell to other countries. Many times people import firearms for the heck of it. I know a few ffl's who collect weird stuff.

Heck, my Saiga SKS was literally brand new by looks, but it could have also been one hell of a reman by Saiga. Who knows. I had no paperwork on it, only markings on the rifle told me it was a Saiga. Certainly was no AK, as I had a Russin ak to compare it to

 

[1stmarine]

zerocool,
many thanks for the prompt reply.
I hear you. All they make I posted in the post before...

First Izmash manufactures the carbines..
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

The thing is that SKS were issued or reserved some for cermonial use. I know Zastaba and Izmash made them but I thought this was all pre Saiga.
I am trying to find in some books I have the in all the series and I cannot fin them.
The day I stop learning something new that day I will be dead so thank you for sharing.

Do you have a picture?

Thanks.

 

[Shear_stress]

Heck, my Saiga SKS was literally brand new by looks, but it could have also been one hell of a reman by Saiga. Who knows. I had no paperwork on it, only markings on the rifle told me it was a Saiga. Certainly was no AK, as I had a Russin ak to compare it to

"Saiga" is a brand name used by Izhmash for a line of rifles and shotguns that use a variation of the AKM action and basic construction. And where'd you pick up that "Russian AK"?

Pics please.

 

[.zerocool.]

Unfortunately I don't have any pics

I was out west for x mas one year and was showing my bro pics while playing basketball. I left them in the mail box while we played and forgot about them. I think the mailman reported them to the authorities thinking I was some crazed terrorist or something. LOL. At least it gave me a good story and memory out of the deal, but I'm po'd because it was pics of everything I've owned in the last decade. Pics I had no copies of.

I'll have to stop by the LGS and see if by any chance they are still there. Been quite a few years since I've dropped in there. Odds are they are still cobwebbed on the rack. I'll post some pics if they are. I'm starting to get really curious about what I had now, as the more I dig into it the more it looked like a custom job, or a hobby job. I do know it's not unheard of for a company employee of a firearm company to make up his own guns for himself, and probably for coolness mark them as the company name, just for the sake of it. Give me a few, I'll see if the LGS still has some next time I road trip.

 

[1stmarine]

.zerocool.
Any pictures would be awesome because as far as I know (and many folks I know too) after studying the ARs, AKs, M1s and several other classics for years never came across something like this. As Shear_stress mentioned Saiga is a brand designation for the sporterized AK version ok to import and we would never consider an SKS with AK denomination or viceversa. Both are piston driven eastern block designs but different systems. So I am still very interested to see how a SAIGA SKS looks like.

I cannot find them anywhere in the books. maybe this was a R&D project or some secret development otherwise I don't really understand.

Are you sure you are not mistaken with another Russian SKS or some other make?

I am not questioning your judgment I am just wondering as nothing is in the firearms books about this.

Cheers,
E.

 

[Shear_stress]

UnUnfortunately I don't have any pics

I was out west for x mas one year and was showing my bro pics while playing basketball. I left them in the mail box while we played and forgot about them. I think the mailman reported them to the authorities thinking I was some crazed terrorist or something. LOL. At least it gave me a good story and memory out of the deal, but I'm po'd because it was pics of everything I've owned in the last decade. Pics I had no copies of

Oooookay. But you still have this "Russian AK", right? Maybe you could somehow conjure up a way to get more pictures. We have the technology.

 

[Ithaca37]

There is no Saiga SKS. .zerocool. has no idea what he is talking about.

This is an uncoverted Saiga. There is no SKS version. The lack of a pistol grip does not make it an SKS clone or derivative.

This is a converted Saiga.

 

[Shear_stress]

There is no Saiga SKS.

That's for sure. The last Russian SKS rolled off the assembly line in the 1950s. It would just be nice if .zerocool. would let us in on what he thinks he saw or owned or whatever . . .without resorting to convoluted stories of mailboxes, etc.

There's so much misinformation out there and it kills me to let it go unchallenged.

 

[Ithaca37]

That's for sure. The last Russian SKS rolled off the assembly line in the 1950s. It would just be nice if .zerocool. would let us in on what he thinks he saw or owned or whatever . . .without resorting to convoluted stories of mailboxes, etc.

There's so much misinformation out there and it kills me to let it go unchallenged.

I have a feeling that we are dealing with a "expert" who got his degree in all things firearms from internet message boards, video games, and airsoft. I am not holding my breath waiting for pictures and a detailed story.

 

[Shear_stress]

I am not holding my breath waiting for pictures and a detailed story.

Yeah, that's about the long and the short of it.

 

[1stmarine]

I have been wondering what an SKS-saiga is? ...or even an SKS-AK ??????

I have been collecting saigas for many years now (Among other systems) and
never heard such thing in my life and I am 45 years old but also lets make sure we give the person the opportunity to explain in a cordial way before we say "they have no idea what they are talking about". If this is the case (and that might well be here) then this could be an opportunity for this person to learn something. I am open to learning from anyone every day.

W/o getting into much details these are the facts that everyone knows:

-AK is kalasnikov action.
-A SKS is a Sergei Simonov action. He also designed the AVS-36 earlier and troubled system.
-A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia that is a denomination for a series of sporterized AKs primarily oriented to hunting.
It is stamped with the same materials and quality procedures as mil spec izmash AK line of carbines. Also shotguns with a slight variation of the aK piston system are in this line of products.
- The Saiga and many other AK based systems are still being manufactured today. AK-101,102,103,104,105,AK-74M,etc... The SKS is not manufactured anymore.
-Both AK and SKS use a long stroke piston system but they are different systems.
-SKS predates the AK and it was quickly phased out by the AK47.
-The SKS was made by all the eastern block countries as well as china, north Korea,etc.. It had an important yet secondary role in some wars. Today it is still used for ceremonial use in Russia.

Cheers,
E.

 

[atblis]

I have an Interarms Tantal and it is nicely put together (much much better than Century).

 

[1stmarine]

I have been wondering what an SKS-saiga is? ...or even an SKS-AK ??????

I have been collecting saigas for many years now (Among other systems) and
never heard such thing in my life and I am 45 years old but also lets make sure we give the person the opportunity to explain in a cordial way before we say "they have no idea what they are talking about". If this is the case (and that might well be here) then this could be an opportunity for this person to learn something. I am open to learning from anyone every day.

W/o getting into much details these are the facts that everyone knows:

-AK is kalasnikov action.
-A SKS is a Sergei Simonov action. He also designed the AVS-36 earlier and troubled system.
-A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia that is a denomination for a series of sporterized AKs primarily oriented to hunting.
It is stamped with the same materials and quality procedures as mil spec izmash AK line of carbines. Also shotguns with a slight variation of the aK piston system are in this line of products.
- The Saiga and many other AK based systems are still being manufactured today. AK-101,102,103,104,105,AK-74M,etc... The SKS is not manufactured anymore.
-Both AK and SKS use a long stroke piston system but they are different systems.
-SKS predates the AK and it was quickly phased out by the AK47.
-The SKS was made by all the eastern block countries as well as china, north Korea,etc.. It had an important yet secondary role in some wars. Today it is still used for ceremonial use in Russia.

Cheers,
E.

 

[Gelgoog]

Uhg, if your going to lecture someone on the Saiga then do it right.

You posted a picture of a sportorized Saiga .308

then posted another picture of a pump action Saiga 12 gauge abomination.

A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it.



Saiga converted to its proper form as an AK-103

 

[1stmarine]

Gelgoog,
Different people have different likes and dislikes but that's a beautiful conversion right there. I cannot tell apart from the AK103. Is that yours and made by you or the Arsenal one?

Here some converted and unconverted including the .308 tack driver. I know, not loyal to the original dressing but all the Russian pedigree from Izmash anyway. I choose the furniture for its function FOR ME. Others might be different.

 

[Ithaca37]

Uhg, if your going to lecture someone on the Saiga then do it right.

You posted a picture of a sportorized Saiga .308

then posted another picture of a pump action Saiga 12 gauge abomination.

A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it.

meh. My point was made and I did not feel like wasting time finding a good picture due to the fact that fools like the one who stated that there is Saiga rarely care to be educated. Thanks for playing though.

 

[Girodin]

A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it

Why in the world would one open up the magwell on a saiga? That is not how one makes regular AK mags work in a saiga. The mag well does not need to be touched. The only reason I can think of that anyone would ever being doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.

 

[nalioth]

The only reason I can think of that anyone would ever being doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.

That is not a valid reason either. There is no need to mess with the mag well to modify the barrel trunnion.

The answer to your (unquoted) question is "ignorance".

 

[Girodin]

There is no need to mess with the mag well to modify the barrel trunnion.

Yes that is correct, what I was trying to say with the line I have quoted below, and may not have been very clear about, is that even that is not "opening" the mag well but one might erroneously refer to it as such if not making an effort to use correct terminology.

. . . doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.

 

[1stmarine]

nalioth and Girodin,
you are 100% right.


Everyone,
There is no reason to fiddle with the mag wells. You might need to 'touch' the magazine catch slightly with a stone so the magazines start easier as they get clamped in place. In the process you might want to install one of those tactical ones all together like I did in the tan AK-47 below but nothing is needed in the well. Then the bullet guide but that is a different story anyway.
Do not fiddle with perfectly ok trunnions if you value your rifle, your eye sight and even your life. So those cutting out receivers, trunnions or any other vital component good luck with that.

Cheers.
E.