Are these rounds over-crimped?

[watermonger]

Cartridge is .500 S&W.

I'm also not getting consistent seat depths when crimp+seating these bullets, I think its because the seating plug is squishing the lead down as it seats the bullet. Should I be seating, then crimping?

 

[Ironicaintit]

The lighting makes the crimp look pretty heavy, but looking close at just the profile, I’d say no, they aren’t over crimped.

sometimes if I’m using a taper crimp to de-bell (IE-380, 9mm), I’ll seat and crimp in the same step....
But with a roll crimp like that, I always seat as one step, then crimp. It does help keep OAL more consistent, and doesn’t mash the nose of the bullet.

 

[PWC]

Yes over crimped; yes, seat and crimp in separate steps.

 

[edwardware]

Unless you're using a slow powder that benefits from a heavy crimp to promote consistent starting, tey that's overcrimped. In any case, try less because you're abusing the life out of your brass.

Yes, if you're bothering to be careful, always seat and crimp in separate steps.

And 0.005-0.010 variation in seating on a lead-nosed bullet isn't unusual.

 

[Steve C]

Your crimp looks fine. Personally I like the case mouth to be in the center or just above center of the cannelure.

I'm also not getting consistent seat depths when crimp+seating these bullets

I think you just have a slight case of "caliper-itis". If you are thinking that a couple thou... difference in OAL makes any difference in ammo performance find a box of factory loaded ammo and measure a few rounds OAL to to see what the industry thinks is consistent enough to get over it.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That looks like the maximum crimp you could put on one, but you need to seat the bullet deeper. The bullet is at the bottom of the cannular and the depending on the length of the case with a short case, the crimp is pulling the bullet down even further than you seated it.
So with a shorter case, and that setting your using, the crimp will pull the bullet down further than a longer case will making the COAL all over the place.

Seat to the center of the cannular for the average length case you have, and the OAL will be more consistent.

Notice after the crimp has be set, it's still close to center of cannular.

 

[Walkalong]

Definitely a very firm crimp, but not necessarily over done, getting there though. I would however seat the bullets a hair deeper and get the case mouth rolled into the center/deepest part of the cannelure. I bet the crimp is pulling some bullets down vs others. Trimmed brass will help with consistent crimps/OAL as well.

Between neck tension and roll crimp into the deepest part of the cannelure, if the bullet doesn't creep forward under recoil, or not too much, you're OK.

 

[SlowFuse]

I prefer seating and crimping separate especially with a roll type crimp.

Same input as pretty much everyone else, mainly seat a hair deeper to get the mouth centered on the cannelure. The round doesn't look bad and I'd imagine would shoot just fine as is.

I'm back and forth on the crimp. In the small pic (thumbnail) it looks overdone but when you really look in detail with the larger picture at the case profile it looks ok. On the heavy side, but ok.

 

[Highland Lofts]

With that much crimp you will probably have early case malfunction on the mouth of the case.
I use to crimp my 357 like that and it shortened the case life.

 

[Typetwelve]

Yes, those are over crimped. I'm guessing they'll shoot, but too much crimp...kinda. It is a 500 after all and you need a heavy crimp with hard hitting loads.

I think it is more so the wrong type of crimp. Doing all the reading I have on 460 S&W and beginning my own loads for that round, it shares a lot in common with 500. I was told over and over to use a collet crimp vs taper or roll.

Here's a shot of some of my 460 loads. The one on the L is using a Lee collet crimp, the one on the R is a Trail Boss load using a Hornady taper crimp:

 

[mdi]

Do the cases bulge when the crimp is applied? Do the bullets "walk" from recoil? From what I've seen in forums for many years, crimping and amount of crimping seems to be pretty much personal preference. I have never worried about case life vs crimp as I would rather have good shooting ammo now, and worry about case life later. My heavy recoiling loads in my 44 Magnums, the biggest I shoot, get a hefty crimp, either collet, profile or roll. Lighter loads usually get lighter crimp. But my meaning of hefty and light probably isn't the same as other reloaders...

Personally, I like to seat bullets with the cannalure upper edge about .010" above the case mouth. I haven't had any 44 Magnum bullets walk and from what I can tell no erratic ignition on my lighter loads. Heaviest loads I normally use id a 265 gr. bullet with near max loads of WC 820...

 

[Typetwelve]

Do the cases bulge when the crimp is applied? Do the bullets "walk" from recoil? From what I've seen in forums for many years, crimping and amount of crimping seems to be pretty much personal preference. I have never worried about case life vs crimp as I would rather have good shooting ammo now, and worry about case life later. My heavy recoiling loads in my 44 Magnums, the biggest I shoot, get a hefty crimp, either collet, profile or roll. Lighter loads usually get lighter crimp. But my meaning of hefty and light probably isn't the same as other reloaders...

Personally, I like to seat bullets with the cannalure upper edge about .010" above the case mouth. I haven't had any 44 Magnum bullets walk and from what I can tell no erratic ignition on my lighter loads. Heaviest loads I normally use id a 265 gr. bullet with near max loads of WC 820...

I'm the same with 44 magnum. 44 special? I really don't crimp at all, just remove the seating flare. Magnum? I use a roll crimp and it has never caused me any issues, even with the hot-boys.

The only reason I bought a collet crimp was because I was told that 460 really needs it to function properly.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Should I be seating, then crimping?

Yes.

 

[Typetwelve]

Yes.

I don't have a clue why a company would make a seat/crimp combo die for something like a 500 or 460.

 

[Obturation]

Heavily loaded cartridges benefit from heavy crimp, keeps everything where it needs to be and won't let bullets pull under recoil. I'm aware of case life but I'm also aware of my life so I prefer to prevent a locked up cylinder and get better ignition . if you're plinking around with light loads you may not need to crimp as much, either way, if you aren't changing bullet dimensions or buckling the case I haven't found a reason not to death crimp revolver rounds.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't have a clue why a company would make a seat/crimp combo die for something like a 500 or 460.

Because fools will buy them.

 

[labnoti]

I find that if I crimp to firmly, I get a lot of resistance and a pop or bang when I begin to lift the press handle. A good crimp usually crunches a little at the end of the handle downstroke, but there will only be a little resistance on the handle upstroke.

 

[edwardware]

I don't have a clue why a company would make a seat/crimp combo die for something like a 500 or 460.

So you can buy one die instead of two? No one said you had to do both in one step.

You CAN seat and crimp at once, but it works much better with milder crimps.

 

[Walkalong]

With a good cannelure (not just roll marks), or a good crimp groove, even heavy crimps work fine when seating when you have consistent case lengths, either trimmed, or all on brand/batch. No need to crimp in a separate step unless you want to.

 

[.38 Special]

It's a maximum crimp. If you are using a slow powder for hot loads - especially something like H110 - it is an appropriate crimp. If it is a lighter load with a faster powder, then it's more crimp than necessary but still fine. The only downside is that it can shorten case life somewhat.

I agree that the bullet could be seated a little deeper for best results.

I wonder what is meant by "inconsistent seating depths". I agree with those who say "caliperitis" is a possibility. If the inconsistency is a few thousandths, it's fine.

I don't understand the dislike for combination seat/crimp dies. I use them for most revolver cartridges and all of them are capable of outshooting me by a wide margin. I sometimes crimp as a separate step - usually because of the equipment I have on hand for a particular cartridge - and find no difference in accuracy.

 

[sparkyv]

I agree 100%:

It's a maximum crimp. If you are using a slow powder for hot loads - especially something like H110 - it is an appropriate crimp.

As for seating depth, I don't fret over a few thou especially for revolver. I might seat yours a bit more, but not imperative; seating it the same depth consistently matters more to me. I use a separate crimp die for my 460S&W rounds, the Lee Collet. It works exceeding well; no crimp jump. Lee makes it for the 500S&W as well.

 

[watermonger]

Your crimp looks fine. Personally I like the case mouth to be in the center or just above center of the cannelure.

I think you just have a slight case of "caliper-itis". If you are thinking that a couple thou... difference in OAL makes any difference in ammo performance find a box of factory loaded ammo and measure a few rounds OAL to to see what the industry thinks is consistent enough to get over it.

One of them is about 2.066 and the other about 2.074, are these close enough to not worry about pressure increase from seat depth?

 

[Riomouse911]

Same here; you have a stout crimp but not excessive enough to bulge the case. Seat a tad deeper and your crimp will be in the sweet spot of the cannelure.

I, too prefer a bit more of a crimp than many because I’ve had bullet pulling issues when shooting some lightly crimped .44 Spl in a S&W 329 PD and some setback in a Rossi .357 Rifle. I rotate through a pretty large stock of cases for all of my centerfire revolvers so I’m not using the same ones over and over again. I’ll get an occasional neck split, but like brake pads and wiper blades, all of them will eventually wear out.

If they shoot well for you, you’ll be ok with a stout crimp on the .500.

Stay safe.

 

[.38 Special]

One of them is about 2.066 and the other about 2.074, are these close enough to not worry about pressure increase from seat depth?

It is good for you to sweat the details at this point in your handloading career, and good for you to be asking such questions here. Having said that, a hundredth of an inch variance in seating depth is utterly irrelevant in a revolver cartridge. Assuming you have taken any kind of care with your powder charges, you will be fine.

 

[murf]

is your seating plug flat, or cone shaped? a flat one would be better for that bullet shape.

luck,

murf