Are these Russian mil-surp optics any good?

[F1ST0]

I saw these optics/red dots on Atlantic Firearms (9 results below the cheapo scopes and EOTechs, the ones with the pictures of the scopes mounted on an AK.) http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/rifle-scopes.html

and:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/red-dot-scopes.html
Same as above, scroll down until you see pictures of optics mounted atop an AK.)

I immediately thought: "One of those would look absolutely awesome on the 16" bbl Saiga .308 I wanna get!" (Archaic Weapon, if you're reading this, I changed my mind about Saiga hunting carbines. )

Does anyone know if these are any good? The thing that worries me is their low price, and they're Russian surplus.

So would a Ruski POSP 6x42, or a PKS-07 milsurp scope be any better or worse than a Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x20 riding on a Midwest ind. scope mount?

 

[stubbicatt]

There are other sites where these scopes have been tested and reviewed. It would be difficult to say "all are good" or "all are bad". Some of them are pretty darned good. The POSP series has been around for many years. I have used them with great satisfaction on various side mount rifles. There are red dots which are built on that POSP main tube, and they are very rugged.

So, in summary, perhaps read through the scopes, find one you think you like, and then run a google search for reviews of that particular scope.

 

[F1ST0]

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[YZ]

F1
They were made to endure punishment. The tubes were steel, weight be damned. The reticle weren't centered. That means, when you adjust for wind age or elevation, you see the crosshairs move. That puts you on target visually, instead of counting MOA clicks. I am referring to the Soviet era optics. Not sure what the modern ones are like. Bottom line, if you like your scope simple and near-indestructible, especially to match a Soviet rifle, it's a go. I'd look them up at a gun show rather than ordering, have to be careful buying any surplus.

 

[F1ST0]

Yeah, read some forum threads on POSPs. Guys seem to love these things.

Some dude modified his Ruger bolt gun just to mount a POSP.
and just about $700 less than the Leupold I wanted...

Oh yeah, this'll do.

Just one thing that still has me thinking: What's the deal with the cheek weld? Am I gonna have to install a cheek riser on my rifle to get a good cheek weld, but will this prohibit me from being able to use the iron sights under the scope?

 

[YZ]

R1
I am skeptical about grafting sophisticated and relatively fragile optics on a sporterized AK. It is a carbine, not a long range rifle. If you can side mount a good native scope, it will serve you as well or better for a lot less money.

 

[JustinJ]

I have a 4X POSP. For the money I paid, $100 used, it is quite a scope. For red dots though i'd stick with aimpoint.

 

[F1ST0]

Is the 4x zoom adequate? I can't imagine hitting anything out past 300 yds with that magnification. But it does seem like a better multi-purpose fixed power than being stuck with 6x or 7x.

also what does the reticle look like?
is it this one?

 

[YZ]

Yes, and yes. An AK carbine is meant to be fired off hand. 4x is as much as you want, higher xx will magnify the physiologic tremor and cause rapid eye fatigue. Shot placement at 300 yards is a stretch for a semiauto AK carbine. The combat reticle you've shown is correct. The rapid aim adjustment is fun. I for one have no patience for click adjustments in a hurry.

 

[JustinJ]

Is the 4x zoom adequate? I can't imagine hitting anything out past 300 yds with that magnification. But it does seem like a better multi-purpose fixed power than being stuck with 6x or 7x.

Adequate to do what? Shoot the smallest groups possible? No. To hit man sized targets? Plenty.

 

[hang fire]

Yeah, read some forum threads on POSPs. Guys seem to love these things.

Some dude modified his Ruger bolt gun just to mount a POSP.
and just about $700 less than the Leupold I wanted...

Oh yeah, this'll do.

Just one thing that still has me thinking: What's the deal with the cheek weld? Am I gonna have to install a cheek riser on my rifle to get a good cheek weld, but will this prohibit me from being able to use the iron sights under the scope?

Make a tapered cheek riser, just a slight forward movement of the head will bring line of sight down to irons. Would not have to require stock modification or be permanently attached as I did.

Scroll down to Mauser scout here: http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/early.html#

 

[F1ST0]

oh, of course. you're right I keep thinking: "I need this setup to shoot 2 MOA at 200 yds." Nope, this rifle is for taking down game in an emergency situation, and taking down bad guys in a double emergency situation.

 

[YZ]

For target acquisition in a hurry, a red dot or good irons are better. I don't know Russian red dots well enough to say anything. On my AK I use a quick release side clamp console with a picatinny top. About $20 from UTG. You can keep two separate ones, one with a standard red dot, the other with a scope. I keep mine naked irons and slide on the console with a 3x scope occasionally.

 

[F1ST0]

That's a good idea. I never thought of keeping two side mounts, since they're supposed to keep zero.

 

[YZ]

Considering how inexpensive the quick release mounts are, keeping optics permanently attached to them makes for a simple modular swap, each unit zeroed and gtg. Timed shooting in a defensive drill is when anything >1x will only slow you down. Another day you go for a 200 yard bullseye shot, the opposite will be true.

 

[-v-]

Check out TX-Zen's website to get some good write-ups of all these optic choices: http://russianoptics.net/index.html I have the PSOP 4x scope. Its a tough scope and the optical clarity is good. Is it a $2,000 Schmidt & Bender? No. But, for a $200 scope, I find it stacks up nicely to the $200-$300 Nikons and Bushnells as far as optical clarity.

Russian optics also don't utilize a cheek weld so much as they use the rubber eye piece to properly index and stabilize your head with the scope. It works surprisingly well.

The Rakurs is an interesting optics, its a prismatic 1x that is tritium illuminated; basically its a ruggedized Leupold Prismatic without the battery life issues.

With Russian red dots and the Obzor optic, they are designed to be shot off-hand and potentially on the move. For a run-and-gun, the high axis of the optic is surprisingly ergonomic since you don't need to hunch over and down onto the optic.

 

[wally]

Before I had Lasik the PSOP was the only scope where the apparent distance of the reticle let me focus on it. I really like them.