Are we getting it wrong?

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berettashotgun

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Everyday I read some posts in 2 very entertaining forums - rifles and shotguns.
Most times I notice I am turning my head as if to avoid a smell from a decaying carcass.
It appears something is amiss in my world, while I enjoy actually "SHOOTING" an informal round, I don't have tactical enhancements and a dusty bore on most of my shotguns.
The 3x9 scopes on my rifles are perfect for me, but not according to a lot of folks.
Aside from a few shotguns I bought just because of the unique qualities ( beretta 1201fp and .410 saiga) a magazine ext. was for snow goose hunting on an 1187, and ghost ring/fiber optic sights were to help my crappy vision on hazy days while chasing quail.
The AR came with a pistol grip, haven't added it to anything else.

They are not for "show 'n tell" to most people.
But, I do reserve hunting buddy "bragging" rights:neener:

I also actually have some shotguns needing a reload after 2 rounds - or one single round.

Understanding the need for information is helpful to many, this forum seems redundant on a video game world of first person shooter getting the "bestest" armament for their character - not necessarily most posts, but quite a few and growing.

Has the search engine been disabled?

At one point in time, 4 evenings a week were spent shooting clay birds and the other two work days were spent with a progressive reloader.
Good times.
The bustles of life and work caught up with me - one day a month (if I'm lucky) is all the trigger time for my favorite tool/toy.
My skills have diminished with lack of repetitions.
My boys have friends who cannot get it right with form or style when they go shoot.
Spray 'n pray is what my oldest refers to this style. Fittingly so. Those young men NEED the extra mag capacity.
I (we) try and help with some instruction, but get very little response from these fellas'.
Went duck hunting with 5 guys, after about a box and a half of premium quality ( $$$) shells - they got nothing. You should have seen the looks I received when I pulled out my old Beretta Trap Special; looks of superiority sure changed when I was 5 for 6.
It wasn't the shotgun or ammo, but that doesn't seem to hit home.
I just don't understand how the mentality got this misaligned about shotguns (and rifles) and shooting. Video games - maybe?
 
There's always room for improvement. That's why I personally discuss hd guns a lot. My hunting preference is as simple as it can get - a single shot break barrel. I hunt mainly varmint and dove.

It is a little frustrating when people who never even shot a shotgun come in asking what kind of stuff they should put on their "toy". They never hunted rabbits, took dove, shot clays....anything. For better or worse I think someone who's started on shotgun in a traditional manner is vastly superior at operating it in a defensive role 9 times out of 10.
 
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Some folks see the use of shotguns for more than tactical reasons or birds with seasons.....some do not

Personally, I have one shotgun that does hold more than two rounds, most do not. The highest capacity rifle I own has a .22 LR magazine of 10. My bolts and single actions do not.

I am older, so the influence of video games on me has been non-existent; however, the younger shooters I do see here and there do love the ability to "spray and pray" or "blast away", or whatever term you would like to use.

To me, accuracy trumps firepower every single time.

I can appreciate Bulino and Rose and Scroll, and admire the works of Francesca and Firmo Fracassi - most today do not.

Different times, different strokes for different folks. Most tactical folks don't realize there is another type of range out there for shotguns that is not indoors and is not limited to paper targets at a short distance - the fun they are missing......... ;)
 
The focus on "bestest" equipment is natural, especially when you're new to shooting and buying your first gear. When you don't know much about guns you're more paranoid about buying the right one.

AcceptableUserName said:
There's always room for improvement. That's why I personally discuss hd guns a lot.
Click to expand...

Eh... I tend to disagree. To me the most important thing for HD is having a reliable weapon (pretty much any weapon) and being able to deploy it reliably and land your shots. So being able to practice* your tactical skills and (God willing) reproduce that if/when it counts is #1. Pump vs semiauto vs carbine, slugs vs #00 vs #1, best round for disabling a car (!?!?), bah, fun to talk about but mainly immaterial.

The most important equipment you can't easily upgrade and it doesn't come with tactical rails and a parkerized finish, it's the fleshy bits hanging off your otherwise perfectly fine gun.

* As others mention here frequently, good training is also key (so that you're practicing the right things).
 
Toys are more fun than tools for most folks.

You don't have to use a toy, or learn to use it well, to enjoy it, but you actually have to use a tool to accomplish anything and that's were the joy is.

You don't have to put any extra effort into enjoying a toy where if you're going to enjoy using a tool you have to learn to use it well (and you have to use it).

Toys are more fun than tools, unless you actually want to enjoy doing something.

I both collect guns I don't shoot and shoot guns I don't collect.
 
A good tool is such a pleasure to use and to learn to use well, that it is indistinguishable from a toy. It's fun to use a good tool, and to use it well. There's no distinction between acquiring a high skill level with a tool, and playing with it -- the two are necessarily and inextricably linked. Yes, "playing" has to involve structure, challenges, and discipline. But playing gets boring unless it involves these things anyway -- that's why we have so many sports, card games, puzzles, and other human diversions. Even dogs only enjoy playing for any length of time if there are some rules to the game. "Hey look! Look how fast I can run up that hill!" is something so deep in our evolutionary makeup that people and our pets share that same game, and we believe we understand the emotional content of our pets' activities.

When it comes to competition, those guns tend to be exemplary tool/toys. Winning may not be everything, but it's FUN. Practicing is fun, and shooting a well-tuned gun is fun. But the same gun, and the same play/practice that it encourages, is exactly what it takes to vaporize the X-ring. No more, no less.:) Work? Play? Who cares?

If by "toy" you mean "crap that accumulates in the closet", then sure. To me, that's not a toy. It's crap. I have such crap. It brings me no pleasure. I just don't sell all of it, because I think that one day I might find it enjoyable to use. So far, no dice. I collect stuff I don't use, though I often do it by mistake. It isn't fun; it's just a mistaken waste of money.
 
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The focus on "bestest" equipment is natural, especially when you're new to shooting and buying your first gear. When you don't know much about guns you're more paranoid about buying the right one.
Click to expand...

Maybe yes, maybe no...the new folks I see here and there on forums and in the field seem more interested in getting the best thing out there for the price of a piece of scrap metal. They have played a game, or read some forum thread that basically says if you don't have the ABC gizmo and the XYZ widget, you're doomed to death at the hands of the zombies.

To that, I say "nonsense". "Software trumps hardware" is the popular saying today.

Whether you want to call a parkerized 870 a tool or a toy; whether you want to do the same to a matched pair of Purdey game guns doesn't matter. If you're not having fun with it in any sense, then you would be better off doing something else with your time and money.

YMMV
 
I'd like to be in that "not being trendy" group, but I own 2 autoloaders. Oh well. They're a fad, right? Oh wait, 3 autoloaders. I forgot about the 1100 I loaned out a few years ago. I hunt with the guy. A black synthetic 1100. I'm doomed.

John
 
What is amazing JohnBT, is the amount of work involved - they had a TV show a while ago on this style of engraving, and the intricate styles took over 1,000,000 strikes with the Bulino to make the shadow and photo quality images......even if you make 5,000 strikes per day, that means 200 days to complete...........no wonder some of the engraving costs as much as the gun............

Steven Spielberg has several Fabbri's done in bulino with the characters of his Jurassic Park movies; Larry Hagman had "Dallas" characters done on his.....

To bring this back on topic - these types of embellishments are lost on the crowd who only see a shotgun as something other than a jack handle substitute with a light on the end..........which is a shame. While I realize that $$$$ considerations put these things out of reach for most of us mere mortals, one can still know, understand, and appreciate the skill involved............
 
You think that Bulino engraving costs a lot now, wait until the people who can do it all retire. Young Europeans don't want to do ANYTHING, to say nothing of anything that takes that level of dedication to one's art. Hell, I wouldn't want to do anything either, if I could collect the dole rather than working hard only to have most of it confiscated in taxes.
 
ArmedBear summed it up for me:
A good tool is such a pleasure to use and to learn to use well, that it is indistinguishable from a toy. It's fun to use a good tool, and to use it well.
Click to expand...

I have guns that are toys. Most of them actually. A safe full of Mosins and Mausers that I like for their history and their aesthetics. I shoot them once in a while. My tools are the Makarov and the CZ-75 that I carry, the Remmington 870 that I sleep next to, and the FAL that will go to the streets when hoards of Chinese Zombie Paratroopers rain down on Oklahoma. Guess what guns I shoot the most and gain the most satisfaction from? The tools.

Find what works for you. Practice often. Enjoy shooting. --Stork
 
"While I realize that $$$$ considerations put these things out of reach for most of us mere mortals, one can still know, understand, and appreciate the skill involved............ "

You're right, but one day I will. I hope. If I live long enough.

It's like me appreciating fine singing and show biz when I can't sing a lick. I still like to know how beautiful things work and are created; like how an 18-year-old English girl sounds so good singing with a 72-year-old James Brown on live tv. She's got him wrapped around her little finger.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt0BwEPqXO8

P.S. - She sang for his Kennedy Center honors when she was 14, but they gave her a bad arrangement. Glad he didn't hold it against her.
 
"While I realize that $$$$ considerations put these things out of reach for most of us mere mortals, one can still know, understand, and appreciate the skill involved............ "
Click to expand...

And THAT is something lacking among many on this board, IMO.
 
Knowing, Understanding, and Appreciation of Skill!

Howdy!
Well said, ArmedBear.
What I see a lot of, rather than the attributes in the above title, is "BUYING".
You can't purchase "Knowing, Understanding and Appreciation of Skill", contrary to the hype put out by our present-day colleges (I spent my last twenty years teaching in them).
The quick way is promoted now, more than ever before, with predictably poor results.
Many valuable skills, which truly take years at which to become adept, are looked upon by an unfortunately growing part of our society, as somewhat inferior, due to the years of diatribe to which they have been exposed.
We have become a society which has great difficulty recognizing "QUALITY", in that we continually equate it with "COST"; thus falling into the trap that says all problems can be solved with more money.
That's sad, but there are a few who do not mind taking the extra time to learn those skills, and thus become capable of appreciating them.
To a populace less motivated to make such efforts, those craftsmen are looked upon as wizards with too much time on their hands.
Yet, when the fruits of these dedicated individuals come on the market, that same populace tends to spend fortunes in acquiring them ,,or something similar to them, but of lower actual quality.
Once they realize the folly of those actions, they seek vindictive retribution for their own ignorance; an ignorance born of having lots of money and little understanding of what "quality" actually is.
This applies to this sport and almost every aspect of our present-day lives.
Time must pass before we will be able to see how this all turns out....
Thanks for your time.
 
Since we're on the topic of utility vs. looks, I purchased a shotgun, an old 11-48, because it was the same price as a Mossberg pump but was semi-auto, and when I have the time, I will actually shoot at some clay targets with it (but not having free time is a disadvantage). I have the intent to do this, but do not have the land to do it on. I would like to purchase a shorter barrel, since a 30" barrel isn't optimal for home defense. But I'll still keep the original, which makes the gun a better tool in many uses.

I purchased a Saiga rifle instead of a Romanian AK, not because it looked cooler, but because I felt sure of the quality. I added a pistol grip because my accuracy is MUCH improved with it. The telescoping stock was for ease of transportation, and if need be, the ability to shoot in a confined area. I modified the handguard a bit to give it a one-of-a-kind look that would stand out, which also allowed it to cool a bit better. The 30 round magazine was to keep from having to reload, but mostly to keep it 922r compliant (30rd American-made mag was $8 more than a 10rd American made one). No, I don't hunt, but I enjoy pulling the trigger and hearing it go "bang".
 
AWESOME JOHNBT.........There are some coffee table books on Bulino-style/Creative Arts etc. If you haven't seen them, let me know and I'll find the names and shoot you a PM.......

Now imagine her face on the side of a parkerized 870 tactical gun......... :D
 
Understanding the need for information is helpful to many, this forum seems redundant on a video game world of first person shooter getting the "bestest" armament for their character - not necessarily most posts, but quite a few and growing.
Click to expand...

Odd, I find it full of cranky curmudgeons who insist that scattergun technology peaked in 19-ought-eleventy-twain, and everything since is an abomination unto their refined sensibilities.

Doesn't mean I can't learn something by keeping my mouth shut and my ears open, though.
 
I think I just got smacked.
My entire point while up there on the soap box was simply, it "SEEMS" the basic skills are being neglected; as in a common thread all over the place the old brand X "vs." brand y.
I have several autos, rifles and shotguns, and enjoy the sensation of repeated fire like a York peppermint patty.;)
I guess I came across uppity - didn't intend to - and I must apologize for any intrusion on anyone.
It just seems things have gotten to the point of all talk. I just see a ton of firearms that will NEVER get worn in, let alone wore out.
Most of the fellas' on this site actually tore into a shotgun or rifle and broke the thing just out of curiosity. Like an old guy ( a boss ) once told me -"If you really want to know how a PT fuel pump works - just take it apart and if you can't get it back together - throw it under the test stand and deny ever touching it"
But in this "information" age - it appears a lot of people want the info without getting their feet wet .
I'll happily oblige the inquisitive, it just is largely transparent advice without actual hands on experience.
I relinquish the soap box.
 
Naw, we agree with you. We agree with everybody. Mostly. Sometimes. :)

"Most of the fellas' on this site actually tore into a shotgun or rifle and broke the thing just out of curiosity."

Want to see my Winchester SX-1 shortly after I bought it? Allow me to present the legendary Winchester autoloading shotgun...

DSCN0178.jpg
 
P.S. - I didn't need the roll of duct tape to get it back together either.

"There are some coffee table books on Bulino-style/Creative Arts etc."

I have seen a lot of them, thank you for the offer though.
 
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