Are you planning on buying or have you bought an IWI Tavor?
- Thread starter Ragsdale0509
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Queen_of_Thunder
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About the only thing I like about it is the ability to switch over to 5.45x39. Other wise eith a few bucks more I can pick up 2 AR's for the grandkids.
Since IWI doesn't have a problem with selling every Tavor they make, I dont see the price going down much. The price will probably settle down to $1750 after everybody thats on a waiting list for a Tavor gets one. The dealer price is in the mid $1600s.
To those complaining about the price, there isn't much companies will do about it. Apparently theres plenty of market space for $2000 rifles, which is why there are ACR, SCARs, FS200s, AUGs, and plenty of high end AR15s.
Also remember the fact that some of the parts are US made, so IWI had to set up some manufacturing facilities here in order to comply with 922r. This ads to the cost of the rifle. Its a bit unfair to compare it to the price of an AR15.
To those complaining about the price, there isn't much companies will do about it. Apparently theres plenty of market space for $2000 rifles, which is why there are ACR, SCARs, FS200s, AUGs, and plenty of high end AR15s.
Also remember the fact that some of the parts are US made, so IWI had to set up some manufacturing facilities here in order to comply with 922r. This ads to the cost of the rifle. Its a bit unfair to compare it to the price of an AR15.
I have handled the Tavor and I've owned two other bullpups, and been able to get time with a few others. I like the way bullpups handle Balance helps, but weight is weight. My sub 6# ARs are livelier guns than a 9lbs bullpup. Then there is the issue of carrying it around, where again weight is weight.
Some that have gotten use outside country of origin that I can think of include:
CZ-805 BREN
CIS / ST Kinetics SAR-21
INSAS
HK G36
HK 416
HK417
FN F2000
FN Scar
Sig 550 (it may actually just predate the breakup of the USSR, I'd have to look. It's an early 90s gun I believe.)
QBZ-95
I'm sure there are more if we start looking at other firearms (shotguns, subguns, light machine guns, etc) things like the Benelli M4, HKp7, Fn P90, etc.
It is actually amazing how much of what is used in firearms is decades old. The longevity of some designs such as the browning M2 and the 1911 really astound me when I think about it
That should probably say no 5.56 AR. A shorty 6.8 would probably stack up nicely to a 16" barreled 5.56 bullpup.
The irony of course is that in the types of use where the length matters the extra couple hundred FPS of a bullpup probably don't. Also for use outside of international armed conflict or non international armed conflict (the two scenarios in which international law may proscribe use of bullets that easily flatten or expand) the velocity loss is also likely to matter much less. Lastly bullpup triggers can make shooting at distance (which is where the velocity loss can begin to matter the most) more difficult.
It is of course a trusism that a longer barrel offers more velocity and bullpup can have a longer barrel with a shorter OAL, that is of course the whole idea behind the concept. How much the velocity loss matters for a given use, or how much of a benefit the shorter OAL is for a given use is a different discussion.
It should be noted that in my experience bullpups are also less "blasty" than say 10.5" ARs (but more so than a 16" one, at least to the shooters perspective, due to the muzzle being that much closer to the shooter).
Like I said earlier, I like the concept of bullpups. They come with their own trade offs. The Tavor seems to be step forward on at least a couple of those.
OilyPablo
Member
A bullpup 6.8 would be awesome.
boricua9mm
Member
No Tavor for me, the AUG A3 delivers plenty of performance with a few extra decades of showing and proving.
Cheapskates, don't kid yourselves. The $2,000+ exotic firearm bracket is not even in the same ballpark. These guns are almost always bought by people who own (or have owned) many other rifles and are looking for something different that also offers quality inline with military standards for that particular weapon. Sure, you can buy 4 Mini-14s or 2 AR15s, but that's exactly what you'll have. Those that understand will agree, those that don't will continue to wonder until the day they do.
Cheapskates, don't kid yourselves. The $2,000+ exotic firearm bracket is not even in the same ballpark. These guns are almost always bought by people who own (or have owned) many other rifles and are looking for something different that also offers quality inline with military standards for that particular weapon. Sure, you can buy 4 Mini-14s or 2 AR15s, but that's exactly what you'll have. Those that understand will agree, those that don't will continue to wonder until the day they do.
Micro tech supposedly had 6.8 conversions in the works for their aug clones butbibdont know that they ever materialized. Now it's supposedly the 300 blk. Which actually could be pretty neat to for certain applications. With an aug quick change barrel it would be easy to go back and forth.
paintballdude902
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idk... id get an AUG before i got a tavor.
i think all the new rifles coming onto the market just look clunky... the tavor, the arx100, the scar, the acr....ect.. i like a streamlined simple looking rifle. i like my ar-15, the mini-14 the aug, an ak but not many of the new rifles coming out
i think all the new rifles coming onto the market just look clunky... the tavor, the arx100, the scar, the acr....ect.. i like a streamlined simple looking rifle. i like my ar-15, the mini-14 the aug, an ak but not many of the new rifles coming out
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
The TAVOR, along with the AUG, are about the only non-AR .223 rifles I have any interest in.
A lot of people don't buy basic ARs though. I am not sure the appeal of the Tavor for the civilian market is utility, but novelty.
I personally prefer the look of the AUG A3 and the FS2000 to the Tavor, and to me they would be range toys. Not sure I can afford that type of range toy at the moment, but I did assemble a range toy AR, and the parts for it came to $1400, including the tools to assembly it, it came to $1700.
People looking for the best value in a military style .223/5.56 rifle probably won't buy an FS2000, AUG or Tavor.
People who like the novelty of the guns are the ones who are shelling out the money for them.
If people want to buy the cheapest possible of everything and are wedded to the idea that 600-700 ar15s are the ultimate in 5.56 rifles more power to them. There isn't anything cheap about guns and stretching your dollar is important for folks who have to worry about money.
However I'm not convinced that a 600-700 ar15 is the 5.56 ultimate rifle. I buy from quality outfits like BCM or Colt. When I buy something, I don't automatically go find the cheapest off brand chinese made alternative. I like my Coca-Cola and not the store brand cola. Sure they're both soda and equally sugary, but Coke tastes just right to me and I don't mind paying more for it.
Thats just what preference in guns are; they're tastes. I'll pay more for one that tastes good to me. Its seems that other people would agree with me because the market for $2000 rifles is growing, including the market for high end AR15s. Anybody who wants to have an AR15 at whatever price point, already has one. The market is flooded with them, which is why they're so cheap. However if you wanted something different, you're gonna have to pay. I don't mind paying a bit more since price isn't my primary concern; I only care about enjoying the rifle and collecting odd guns.
However I'm not convinced that a 600-700 ar15 is the 5.56 ultimate rifle. I buy from quality outfits like BCM or Colt. When I buy something, I don't automatically go find the cheapest off brand chinese made alternative. I like my Coca-Cola and not the store brand cola. Sure they're both soda and equally sugary, but Coke tastes just right to me and I don't mind paying more for it.
Thats just what preference in guns are; they're tastes. I'll pay more for one that tastes good to me. Its seems that other people would agree with me because the market for $2000 rifles is growing, including the market for high end AR15s. Anybody who wants to have an AR15 at whatever price point, already has one. The market is flooded with them, which is why they're so cheap. However if you wanted something different, you're gonna have to pay. I don't mind paying a bit more since price isn't my primary concern; I only care about enjoying the rifle and collecting odd guns.
Looked over second hand Bushmaster hardly used shape for $800. That was older one Made in Maine (not new Bushington) with telescoping stock, short heavy barrel with long flash disperser, bayonet mount, classic for-end guard and integral carrying handle (rather like old Colt Commando). Not liking rails and other tactiKool stuff that is what I would get.
It's not high on my list. If someone is looking for a rifle that can sling a bunch of .223 at something accurately and reliably, an AR is hard to beat. You can trip over parts for them and they just plain work. Changing mags in bullpups is kind of unnatural and the only real advantage I can see is they are compact. I don't find a 16" AR huge by any means and I can replace parts on it or modify it til the cows come home. I would consider one if the price was the same as say a Colt 6920. It would put it in a competitive price range at least. I just don't see it as a gun that's worth twice as much. If anyone wants to give me one for free...I'm game.
The Tavor may be a very cool rifle, but I'm a utilitarian kind of guy.
For the price of just a Tavor, I could have a new BCM or Colt AR, a bunch of magazines, and a case of ammunition.
Or I could have a BCM or Colt and be well on my way to having a second AR built with the extra $600-$700.
For the price of just a Tavor, I could have a new BCM or Colt AR, a bunch of magazines, and a case of ammunition.
Or I could have a BCM or Colt and be well on my way to having a second AR built with the extra $600-$700.
purchased a tavor for tha fact i wanted something different...anything wrong with that? seems it is for lots a people, sorry but i start LOL when i hear this " i could have bought 2 ar15s BCM/COLT etc.. for the price of a tavor..etc.." by all means goy buy them enjoy them, heck i enjoy my tavor...nothing wrong with that
I much rather spend less on basic M1A carbine. It's chambered for 7,62x51 that is very useful for hunting medium sized game with five shot magazine. Another advantage of the M1A unlike the Tavor it comes with excellent adjustable iron sights. The Tavor really needs good dot sight or low power scope and good ones start at $300 (quality dot sights with adjustable illumination are shockingly expensive with average price being about $500 or more).
OilyPablo
Member
Seriously comparing an M1A to a Tavor? :banghead::banghead::banghead:
I understand for the money I could buy a DW 1911. Or a nice shotgun.
I understand for the money I could buy a DW 1911. Or a nice shotgun.
JustinJ
Member
I still prefer the AUG over the Tavor. AUG parts are readily available, albeit pricey, and the quick change barrel feature is very cool. If alternate AUG barrel/bolt calibers ever do become available, as has been promised, the AUG will have another significant advantage. 9 mm kits are supposed to be right around the corner. Swapping calibers with the Tavor is not even on the horizon or very practical from a mechanical standpoint. The AUG also has extremely reliable 42 round magazines which many feel are superior to AR mags. If one wishes, however, the NATO stock does allow AR mags to be used. There are also several options available to improve the AUG trigger feel. If it were either/or i'd definitely grab the AUG.
Bullpups might very well be the ultimate HD rifle. They provide a compact size for maneuverability without the shorter barrel and associated blast which becomes magnified indoors. Risks associated with using an NFA gun for HD are avoided as well. Personally, I think the FN PS90 would be the pinnacle of HD rifles if some of the better rounds were more readily available. Multiple, aimed shots of a potent round can easily be delivered with much less muzzle blast than a 5.56. The round is also small and fast so over penetration with the right bullet is less of an issue than many other calibers.
Bullpups might very well be the ultimate HD rifle. They provide a compact size for maneuverability without the shorter barrel and associated blast which becomes magnified indoors. Risks associated with using an NFA gun for HD are avoided as well. Personally, I think the FN PS90 would be the pinnacle of HD rifles if some of the better rounds were more readily available. Multiple, aimed shots of a potent round can easily be delivered with much less muzzle blast than a 5.56. The round is also small and fast so over penetration with the right bullet is less of an issue than many other calibers.
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