Aren’t Federal Officers able to use their guns off-duty?

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Aim1

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This article says he was arrested for using his duty pistol off duty and then later admitted to fabricating the story about almost being run over and having to draw his gun. However, he was initially arrested for using his gun not fabricating the story.

Surely federal agents can use their weapons in an off-duty incident if necessary.

What if a federal agent got caught in the Vegas shootings and used his duty weapon to help, would he be in violation?

Also, doesn’t the LEOSA allow LEO’s to carry their weapons off-duty in any state?




https://nypost.com/2018/02/19/ice-agent-accused-of-pulling-gun-on-man-then-having-him-arrested/



Over the phone, the superior informed the desk officer that Castro wasn’t allowed to use his gun while off duty, according to the police source. The agent was immediately arrested in the station house around 3 a.m. Sunday, cops said.
 
The agent's supervisor may simply not know about LEOSA. In any case, it wouldn't cover him due to what he is alleged to have done.
 
The issue was not that the agent used his duty pistol, but that he misused a firearm of any sort.


The report (as accurate or inaccurate it can be) said that everything was good to go until he notified his supervisor who said he can’t use his weapon off duty.
 
When you misbehave, or act maliciously as an LEO, on or off duty, your department or agency will quickly point out that you operated "outside the scope of your employment,and authority". In other words, your department states that, "that is not what you were hired for", and they quickly step away from you, and will not represent you. Your misbehavior has in effect severed you from any departmental protection or legal representation. Jack Bauer would have never have gotten away with any of the stuff he pulled.;)
 
I read most of the story, the Federal Officer was off duty, but carrying his service weapon as he assisted his cousin repossess vehicles. The owner of the repossessed vehicle was there, and the Federal Officer decides to block the repo car with his own vehicle! That is very aggressive behavior. The owner, the Federal Officer, and I assume the repo man all get into an argument, at which point the Federal Officer pulls his weapon, and "arrests" the vehicle owner.

I am not a lawyer, but I am a taxpayer and I don't want Federal Officers using their guns, nor the authority of the state, to help relatives conduct business. This is my opinion, based only on the article, but what I read comes across that the Federal Officer had an Judge Dredd attitude of "I am the law". His attitude, his feelings of entitlement, and his gun, escalated a dispute over property and I am glad he did not shoot anyone.

My neighbor lost his brother in 1969. His brother was a two tour Vietnam veteran, went over as an enlisted man, came back as a Captain. On leave between his next tour, his brother got into a relationship with a divorcee. The woman's first husband was a Police Officer who apparently followed her and harassed her boyfriends, and chased them away. According to my neighbor, his brother had the woman on the back of his motorcycle, and the Police Officer decided to pull them over. Brother stupidly tried to out run the cop, and lost it on a curve. The woman survived uninjured, as brother pushed her off on grass, but he hit something hard and died. Nothing happened to the Cop and my neighbor is still mad about this. And rightly so, I consider this an injustice. At the time, Cops were free to do whatever they wanted to do, even if that meant they could harass ex wives, ex girl friends, because they had the power of the state to back them up.

I think times are a changing, and it is for the good.
 
....doesn’t the LEOSA allow LEO’s to carry their weapons off-duty in any state?....

The federal agent involved is called in the article a US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) agent. Do we really know what sort of federal agent that is and what his powers and authority are? Do we really know that he is a "law enforcement officer" for the purposes of LEOSA?

Even if he is covered by LEOSA, his employing agency could still have policies limiting his authority to carry weapons off duty or while essentially moonlighting.

....I don't want Federal Officers using their guns, nor the authority of the state, to help relatives conduct business.....
However, what you want is irrelevant. This isn't about what you want. This is about what the law is.

....Cops were free to do whatever they wanted to do, even if that meant they could harass ex wives, ex girl friends, because they had the power of the state to back them up....
And that's inflammatory nonsense.

The story you relate is a sad one, and certainly suggests that one cop acted inappropriately. That doesn't equate to "cops are free to do whatever they want."

There will always be police officers, teachers, judges, doctors, etc., who act improperly. And there are a variety of controls in place, including employer policies and in many cases the possibility of lawsuits, to try to deal with misconduct, but like everything else done by humans those controls are imperfect. But getting away with something is not the same thing as being free to do it.
 
Yes and no. Depends on the agency and sometimes the supervising agent. As for the weapons, that can also be different. Same as some can carry on a plane, some can't

Most (cannot attempt to speak for all) will require a weapon you have been certified to shoot. One time I was certified on a p226 a 239, and later HK usp and usp compact just to name a few.

As for USCIS, I have to say I never knew they had or needed armed agents, thought they had some armed guards for building security. However, I just thought they helped with immigration papers and such.

Something like approx 70 some federal agencies with some type of armed agents and quite a few don't have agents with arresting authority,

On that note, typing on this tablet is driving me crazy.

And the number of bad LE officers is miniscule in proportion to the number there are.
 
A friend of mine was a sworn law enforcement officer with US Customs and the rule for them was no issue weapons while moolighting. You could carry off duty, but not on a paid job. Another friend worked for the US Park Service and the rule was carry with what you are authorized to carry, i.e. Sig P229, P239, P232.
 
in general there are many types of Federal Officers all with different jurisdictions and authority, the term Federal Officer is not one size fits all , just because a person is a Federal Officer they do not have unlimited
jurisdiction or authority or allowed to carry a duty firearm off duty and do not have power of arrest outside their jurisdiction,
At least this has been my understanding
 
However, what you want is irrelevant. This isn't about what you want. This is about what the law is.
Maybe enough people think like me, because Omar Castro was arrested, and arraigned at Bronx Criminal Court on charges of menacing and criminal possession of a weapon. What are his chances of keeping his badge after that?
 
USCIS is not ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement! They are administrators. They are attached to Homeland Security, but also aren't U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, nor should their staff be sworn federal law enforcement agents.
 
Maybe enough people think like me, because Omar Castro was arrested, and arraigned at Bronx Criminal Court on charges of menacing and criminal possession of a weapon. What are his chances of keeping his badge after that?

That has nothing to do with folks thinking like you. That has nothing to do with the way you think things should be. The fact that you think he shouldn't have done what he did has nothing to do with his being arrested and charged with a crime. Your wants or beliefs have nothing to do with this.

Castro was not arrested and charged because he did something you think he shouldn't do. Castro was arrested and charged because the prosecutor has concluded that Castro violated New York law.
 
Do we really know that he is a "law enforcement officer" for the purposes of LEOSA?
If he's an armed USICS agent, he is LEO according to LEOSA. According to the courts, carrying a gun and authority to arrest is about all you need to qualify under LEOSA:
As a refresher, here’s are the conditions that an law enforcement officer must meet to qualify for protection under LEOSA:
  • is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice);
  • is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
  • is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers; meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
  • is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
  • is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
However, if he's carrying his Service weapon and his credentials (if you carry the gun, you must carry the creds), then he's not carrying under LEOSA, he's carrying on his creds.

Once he does something illegal, namely lie to a police officer about why he pulled his Service weapon, he's violated policy and lost authorization to, "bear(ing) firearms."
 
I did internal affairs work for several years with a city department down here in south Florida and there's a bunch of misconceptions about what an officer - local, state, or federal can do while not on the job... Nothing that I'm aware of justifies any officer from acting improperly with his or her weapon while on or off the job.... In fact, whatever agency the individual works for will first review any incident to see if the subject officer violated any laws -and if violations of law occurred, with an arrest -then the individual would be suspended until the court case ran it's course (and whether that suspension was with or without pay would be a matter of agreed labor relations - and most agencies I was aware of would not be paying the individual from the first notification, until the court case was settled...). If no criminal action resulted from the incident the agency would still initiate an internal investigation to see whether any agency policies were violated (and if that is found to be the case the only thing at risk is in-house disciplinary action all the way up to the individual losing his/her job...). Whether the individual involved was suspended or not during an internal investigation was decided by our Chief. If an arrest of the officer occurred the suspension was automatic.

As always with weapons, even if you're authorized to carry, what you do with that firearm will be the situation that results in either support or actions from disciplinary all the way to criminal sanctions. If an officer is acting lawfully and within the scope of their employment their agency will have to stand up for them since they're the ones liable in any civil action... If the individual is not acting within the law or his/her scope of employment then whoever they work for will not support them in any manner. We always advised our officers to only take enforcement action off duty when there was no other recourse - and clearly notified them that outside their jurisdiction - no matter how justified they might have been - they were going to be on their own in any subsequent civil action. None of this is the way these kind of events are portrayed in movies or on TV, of course...

On the other side of the coin, in my state, Florida, once an internal investigation is completed it becomes public record - so anyone involved or interested can review the file. On more than one occasion the results of the internal investigation was the officer's best defense in any subsequent civil action... once again, not exactly how the public sees it... Whenever an officer (local, state, or federal) is alleged to have acted improperly or in a criminal fashion - whatever state is involved will have their own ways of dealing with it. If it's a federal matter though that results in federal action the rules will be uniform across the country...
 
If he's an armed USICS agent, he is LEO according to LEOSA.....
No, you have not demonstrated that. All you've done is quote the definitions from LEOSA, but you have not shown that Castro is an LEAO as thus defined.

  • What are the duties and scope of authority of a USICS agent? If you answer, cite the sources supporting your answer.

  • What exactly his Castro's position? The article referred to him as a USICS agent, but news articles are often inaccurate about what may seem to be minor details. So what exactly are the duties and scope of authority of persons in Castro's position?

  • What are the employing agency's policies regarding off duty carrying and use of firearms?
...According to the courts, carrying a gun and authority to arrest is about all you need to qualify under LEOSA:...
If your opinion relies on court rulings you need to cite those rulings.
 
If he's an armed USICS agent, he is LEO according to LEOSA. According to the courts, carrying a gun and authority to arrest is about all you need to qualify under LEOSA:
However, if he's carrying his Service weapon and his credentials (if you carry the gun, you must carry the creds), then he's not carrying under LEOSA, he's carrying on his creds.

Once he does something illegal, namely lie to a police officer about why he pulled his Service weapon, he's violated policy and lost authorization to, "bear(ing) firearms."

The various legal authorities to carry a concealed weapon are not mutually exclusive. It's possible for a person to carry under more than one authority at the same time.

I'm questioning of your legal assertion that violating agency policy (by making a false representation) to an officer results in a loss of authority to carry the firearm. Is this something that you just made up, or can you cite to a statute or published case decision so holding?

There are two state court trial decisions that hold differently. In New York v Benjamin L. Booth (2008), Booth was arrested for CCW. He held statutory powers of arrest and was authorized to carry a firearm in the course of his duties. He was not authorized to carry off duty. He pled LEOSA as a defense. The trial court held that he was exempted from New York's CCW law because he met the criteria of LEOSA. LEOSA is silent on the issue of whether "authorized to carry" is limited to on-duty only. In California, Jose Diaz was arrested by the San Fernando PD under similar circumstances. The criminal charges were dismissed and Diaz filed a subsequent lawsuit which settled in Diaz' favor. The issues were essentially the same as in the Booth case. Diaz violated agency policy by carrying the weapon, but did violate criminal law because of the effect of LEOSA.
 
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or can you cite to a statute or published case decision so holding
Why would I need to cite case law when agency policy is at issue? The agency, whose authority to carry firearms is implied or by statute, determines who it authorizes to carry and when it rescinds authorization, not case law. I've dealt with this policy for the last dozen plus years in a sister agency to USCIS.

LEOSA case law is 4. You have to be really lazy to demand I post it.
Ronald Eugene Duberry, Appellants v. District of Columbia, Appellees
Decided: June 3, 2016

Why it matters: In a 2 - 1 decision, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Washington D.C. Circuit extended the right of retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons under LEOSA to retired corrections officers.

The Facts: Four retired D.C. correctional officers from the D.C. and Maryland area sought to carry concealed weapons because they “frequently encountered former inmates in public.” They allege that under the LEOSA, they are qualified retired law enforcement officers who each retired in good standing after working for ten years or more for the D.C. Department of Corrections.

The appellants applied to receive the required firearms certification from a qualified instructor, but were denied on the grounds that a career as a correctional officer did not fulfill the criteria and definition required by LEOSA because D.C. law gave correctional officers neither law enforcement status nor “arrest authority.”

Conclusions: Each appellant worked at least 10 years for the Department of Corrections, and each officer carried a photo ID confirming their retired status. The courts decided that because their roles as corrections officers gave them the authority to “arrest and apprehend, and to act in a law enforcement capacity,” they indeed qualified to be protected under the LEOSA.

James Roger Thorne v. United States
Decided: November 15, 2012

Why it matters: The Court declared private security guards are not protected by LEOSA.

The Facts: James Roger Thorne of Washington, D.C. was convicted for carrying a pistol without a license, possession of an unregistered firearm, and unlawful possession of ammunition.
Thorne worked for a company called Alexandria Security Patrol Corporation, which hired him as a “special conservator of the peace (SCOP).” His job description offered him some authority to act in a law enforcement capacity, including the power to make arrests and to carry a gun on duty. Because of his job, the defendant argued that he should be protected from prosecution for carrying an unregistered firearm and ammunition by the LEOSA.

First, the defendant argued that the Alexandria Security Patrol Corporation was a government agency because it was a “criminal justice agency,” and thus he should be protected under LEOSA. The Court replied that there was a distinct difference between a private corporation and government/state police agencies, and said there was "no authority" to consider the corporation a government agency.

Conclusions: The defendant was employed by the Alexandria Security Patrol Corporation, which the court decided was a private business entity and not a branch of government. Because the defendant did not demonstrate that he is an employee of a governmental agency, he is not entitled to the protection of LEOSA.

The People of the State of New York vs. Benjamin L. Booth
Decided: May 29, 2008

Why it matters: Before the LEOSA was amended in 2013 to include qualified military personnel if they possessed an approved photo ID, this case affirmed the privileges of Coast Guard members to carry concealed weapons if they met other criteria.

The Facts: Defendant Benjamin L. Booth was stopped for driving 40 mph in a 30 mph zone. An officer searched his vehicle and found a loaded Glock handgun under the driver’s seat. The magazine contained 12 rounds, with an additional round in the chamber. The defendant stated he did not have a license to possess a firearm.
After being arrested, brought to the station and being read his Miranda rights, the defendant stated that he had received a waiver from the Coast Guard to use the firearm to practice shooting.

Lieutenant Benjamin W. Stevenson of the U.S. Coast Guard testified regarding the duties of the defendant as a member of the Coast Guard. According to Stevenson, the defendant was permitted to carry a weapon when conducting operations for the Coast Guard. He was required to be in uniform and carry a badge and ID card while conducting operations. The defendant was also authorized to make arrests and take part in law enforcement. His authority to carry a weapon did not extend beyond his role as a member of the Coast Guard, and he was not permitted to carry a concealed weapon while out of uniform.

Conclusions: Although the defendant broke the rules of the U.S. Coast Guard by possessing a handgun without a license, he is exempt from prosecution from New York State Law as a result of LEOSA. The evidence presented at the hearing showed that Booth was a qualified LEO who possessed photographic ID issued by the Coast Guard. As the defendant was fully qualified as an officer of the law and met all of the necessary criteria outlined by LEOSA, he is exempt from prosecution.

The People of the State of New York v. Arthur Rodriguez
Decided: 2006

Why it matters: Though constables are elected officials and paid as “independent contractors,” the Court decided they were employed by the executive branch and thus qualify for LEOSA privileges. This case showed that the court was willing to take a broad definition of what qualified as a law enforcement official.

The facts: Arthur Rodriguez was a full-time construction worker who was also employed as a Pennsylvania State Constable: an elected position that was essentially paid like an independent contractor. He was arrested in New York City for the criminal possession of a weapon
Rodriguez testified that he was qualified, certified, and authorized to carry a weapon in his home state, and as a constable, could make arrests and enforce the law.

Conclusions: The Court dismissed the charge after applying LEOSA to these guidelines. According to their opinion, Rodriguez qualified as a government employee and was thus protected from prosecution by the State of New York.
 
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Why would I need to cite case law when agency policy is at issue? The agency, whose authority to carry firearms is implied or by statute, determines who it authorizes to carry and when it rescinds authorization, not case law. I've dealt with this policy for the last dozen plus years in a sister agency to USCIS.

LEOSA case law is 4. You have to be really lazy to demand I post it.

Because you made an assertion that if a LEOSA covered officer violates their agency's policy, that policy violation means that their authorization to carry goes away, and thus their right to carry under LEOSA goes away. I think that you're making that up off the top of your head and that what you have maintained is not true. One of things that case law accomplishes is to validate, or invalidate, agency policy in relation to statute.

I haven't located any published cases on the point, but I did cite to two unpublished trial court decisions providing otherwise.

You have not cited any published case decisions, but have posted four unpublished trial court decisions above. Three of your cases are irrelevant to our discussion, there is no issue of agency policy involved in them. The Booth case is one that I cited and it squarely tests the proposition here. Booth acted in violation of his agency's policy, and rather that rule that he was now an uncovered individual (as your argument holds), the court found that he was protected.

Requesting that folks "back up" their comments is not lazy, it's a good way of ensuring that we keep our discussions honest and factual.
 
....I've dealt with this policy for the last dozen plus years in a sister agency to USCIS....
So what?

....LEOSA case law is 4. You have to be really lazy to demand I post it.
Hogwash!

If you make a claim, it's your burden to support it. And if you make a claim relying on court decisions to support that claim, it's your responsibility to properly cite those cases. Proper citation allows the reader to readily identify the exact case you're referring to (there are many cases with the same name), find the decision itself (the one written by the court, not some anonymous person's summary), and read the decision to test whether it actually says what you claim.

And now I'll illustrate how things should be done by demonstrating that Booth doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. That case is properly cited as Pejople v. Benjamin Booth (N.Y.Co.Ct 2008), and the actual decision may be read here. Now the most important thing about this case for the purposes of this discussion is that it is completely meaningless. It's a decision of a New York county court. That is a trial court. Decisions of trial courts are not precedent and are not binding on any other court.

Rodriguez (People v. Arthur Rodriguez (Indictment # 2917/06 (NY. Sup. Ct. 2006)) is also a trial court decision and like Booth does not constitute "case law." So neither Booth nor Rodriguez can support the proposition that:
...According to the courts, carrying a gun and authority to arrest is about all you need to qualify under LEOSA:...

Duberry, et al. v. District of Columbia (D. C. Circuit, No. 15-7062, 2016) is an appellate court case and therefore has precedential value (only in the D. C. Circuit), but it doesn't say what you seem to think it says. The court of appeals did not rule in that case that "....because their roles as corrections officers gave them the authority to “arrest and apprehend, and to act in a law enforcement capacity,” they indeed qualified to be protected under the LEOSA.

Durburry and several other retired correctional officers (collectively "Durburry") who had worked in either the District of Columbia or Maryland. They had sought certification of prior law enforcement employment to qualify under LEOSA. Their agencies declined to furnish that certification. Durburry sued under 42 USC 1983 alleging a deprivation of a federal right under color of authority and seeking injunctive and declaratory relief. Defendants moved to dismiss for failure to state a claim, and the trial court granted the motion and dismissed the suit. Durburry appealed.

The D. C. Circuit disagreed and reversed the trial court's dismissal of the suit. In doing so, they sent the case back to the trial court for further proceedings. The court of appeals did not rule on the substantive question, i. e., whether Durburry was qualified as an LEO under LEOSA. The question remains for the trial court to answer. The court of appeals only decided that Durburry should have his opportunity to prove his claim in the trial court.

But getting back to the subject of this thread, Omar Castro, nothing you have posted resolves the question of whether LEOSA applies to Castro. Nothing you have said clarifies the question of Castro's employment and whether he has the power of arrest. Furthermore, it hasn't been established that Castro had, as required by LEOSA (18 USC 926B(d)):
...
photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency....
 
Here is the regulation (in Chapter 8 of the Code of Federal Regulations) that defines the powers of USCIS personnel. Without Castro's specific employment designation, it is still not possible to determine which category, if any, might apply. Of particular note, some categories only have authorization when individuals are in uniform and on duty.
 
Here is the regulation (in Chapter 8 of the Code of Federal Regulations) that defines the powers of USCIS personnel. Without Castro's specific employment designation, it is still not possible to determine which category, if any, might apply. Of particular note, some categories only have authorization when individuals are in uniform and on duty.

Very good and thank you.
 
In Texas, federal officers are not peace officers and may not act outside of the scope of their office. In other words, if an FBI agent observes a road rage incident he has no more authority to act than a normal citizen.
 
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