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Argentino Model 1891

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Flyboy73, Feb 6, 2006.

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  1. Flyboy73

    Flyboy73 Member

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    Was at a acution and they had listed a Mauser Argentina model 1891 with monte carlo stock and tasco scope.

    I thought before this may have been a Bubbafied Argentina Mauser. But this apperars to be a sporting rifle from the start.

    On the side it says "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 Deutsche Waffen-UND Munitionsfabriker Berlin"

    It has no front site and a extendad mag(instead of the flush mauser floorplate), which the bottom pivots out after removing a screw.

    I could find no info on this gun in the Gun blue book.

    I paid $130 for it, and as I was loading it into my van, a guy came up, said he missed it, looked at and offered me $150 for it. I took his number and told him i would call him back.

    My gut told me it was worth more.

    Can anyone give me some info on the gun? Its value?

    Also what is it chambered in? I could not find it on the gun.

    Thanks
    Brion
     
  2. kentucky_smith

    kentucky_smith Member

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    http://www.surplusrifle.com/argentine1891/index.asp

    Probably sporterized.


     
  3. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    The 1891 Argentine was made by Ludwig Loewe and after Loewe combined with a German cartridge maker, DWM.

    These were very fine rifles, but not nearly as strong as the later 1893-94-95-and 98 Mauser's.

    During the between the war years, the 91 Mauser was a favorite of German custom hunting rifle makers for building light weight stalking rifles.

    Argentine 1891 Mauser's were made in 29 inch rifles, and 17 inch cavalry carbines.

    Many of these had the Argentine crest ground off the receiver ring after Argentine rifles started turning up in a war between two Central American countries.
    When questioned about this, Argentina began grinding the crest off surplus rifles.
    Later, this practice was ended and rifles with intact crests were again sold.

    Huge quantities of both the rifles and carbines were imported into the US, and you see many of them that were converted to sporter rifles of various qualities.

    Original caliber was the Mauser/Argentine 7.65mm.
    These rifles are not suitable for use with more powerful cartridges.

    Value depends entirely on the condition of the rifle and the quality of the sporterization.
     
  4. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    On the model 91 alpine/Calvary carbine (not the engineer carbine) the bayonet mount took a cut down version of the brass handled Remington rolling block bayonet. This makes a cool combo. I'll see if I can take a picture:D
     
  5. Flyboy73

    Flyboy73 Member

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    Think you guys are right Sporterized 1891 argentine. Looks like a really good job though. Now Need to decide on to sell it or not.


    Brion
     
  6. asknight

    asknight Member

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    I don't know the true value of the things, but I paid $40 to a pawn shop for my 1891 Loewe sporterized cavalry carbine with all matching numbers and G to VG bore. My stock is the original stock, and it appears that they only removed the handguard. Due to the nature of pawn shops, makes me wonder what they paid the guy that pawned it in the first place. They are a hoot to shoot, and the 7.65ARG is real close to .308 ballistics.

    I don't remember where I looked up my serial # on the net, but it reported that mine was made in 1894. A google search will likely give you more info on your rifle.

    I've seen un-sporterized 1891 Argy's going for $200+ on many sites.
     
  7. Roudy

    Roudy Member

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    Here is my 1891 Argentino. Don't know what they are selling for, but I wouldn't sell mine. It has had the crest ground off, but other than that is totally original. A beautiful example of turn of the century workmanship. The action is silky smooth and the bore is mirror shiny.

    If the sporsterized rifle you are looking at has a good bore it is well worth the asking price....the rest can be corrected. The 7.65 cartridge is not hard to haldload, you can even make cases from a 30-06 case.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Deles136

    Deles136 Member

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    Does anyone know where I can find a stock for the carbine type of these rifles ?

    Many thanks,
     
  9. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Bubba for certain. The originals all had front sights and to my knowledge no '91's were ever mounted for scopes. The '09's filled that role later on, and continued in service all the way through the conflict with the UK.
     
  11. Deles136

    Deles136 Member

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    Thanks for the links - Someone butchered the existing stock and I may just have to live with it.

    Many thanks,
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Bubba strikes again, call the guy who offered you a profit.
    The price of 7.65 ammo will hurt your feelings, if you can find some in the first place.
     
  13. asknight

    asknight Member

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    I agree about the profit part, but ammo can be found. Graf's makes it, and Yugoslavia is loading non-corrosive boxer primed rounds for it.
     
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Yup.
    Graf's has 7.65 Argie in stock
    Dollar a pop for Hornady, $.65 for Yugo.
    Couple afternoons at the range, he's spent the price of the rifle in ammo.
    It's been years since I saw any surplus advertised, but then I'm not looking for it.
    Do you handload, Deles?
     
  15. Deles136

    Deles136 Member

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    Jim Watson - Yes I do handload but I have a good supply of surplus &.65 ammo. I found some at Century, I think, about a year ago so I can reload and have enough to supply me. I will check Grafs.

    Many thanks,
     
  16. Flyboy73

    Flyboy73 Member

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    I was placing an order with Sportsmanguide and picked up a box for $18. Not sure if that is pricey though.

    Brion
     
  17. Roudy

    Roudy Member

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    Make your own brass

    7.65 brass is relatively easy to make from 30-06.

    1. Run the 30-06 brass through a 7.65 Argentine sizing die.
    2. Roughly trim to length with a hacksaw...cut a little long.
    3. Trim to length with a Lee 7.65 trimmer, and deburr.
    4. Load and fireform.

    Viola....7.65 Argentine brass. Fortunately I bought a lot of once fired military 30-06 brass many years ago at about a penny each. If you use brass that has been fired you 'might' need to sized in a set of small base dies first. Make a few cases and try them in your chamber so see if they will fit.
     
  18. Buck-eye

    Buck-eye Member

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    I think I have the bayonet that fits on this rifle. I was looking up info on it and that is how I found this site/thread.

    Here is a link to info on the bayonet;

    http://arms2armor.com/Bayonets/arg1891a.htm

    I found a couple prices(bought for not just listed) for this bayonet on some antique auction sites...both were right about $123.oo. If that is what the bayonet is worth I would say you got a steal on the rifle.
     
  19. Buck-eye

    Buck-eye Member

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  20. Flyboy73

    Flyboy73 Member

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    The gun is missing its bayonet lug. being thats sporterized value of it goes way down. Not a easy canadite to change back.

    I did pick up a orginal one to go with it. Its a nice rifle, would make a great deer gun.

    Brion
     
  21. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    I bought one a couple of years ago, kind of a shame for the guys collecting originals as it's all matching with a full crest.

    [​IMG]

    They are only worth what someone will pay, but if I found another one of this quality I'd go $400-500 easily, it's a nice example of post-WWII sporterizing. This one was done by Williams supposedly in the early '50's.
     
  22. Tokugawa

    Tokugawa Member

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    Are you guys using factoy ammo? I have been gettin leery of using the Norms, apparently it spec's at 52,000 psi. When us commercial ammo for the 7 x 57 is held to 46,000 psi because of the "old" 1895 mausers, it sort of scares me to use the norma stuff in a 1891
     
  23. Harry Paget Flashman

    Harry Paget Flashman Member

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    I got one for $173 a few months ago at a gun store. A guy was trying to sell two Savages and had the 1891 in his truck. The store owner bought only one of the Savages and the guy offered the 1891 for $250. The owner didn't want it so I offered the guy everything I had in my wallet...turned out to be $173 and the guy took it. The rifle was in superb shape. A real beauty.

    Prvi Partizan ammo in 7.65 was going for $8.95/20 box at Aim Surplus.
     
  24. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    I handload a mild 180 grain load for mine at about 2350 FPS.
     
  25. fatelk

    fatelk Member

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    I bought an 1891 in 7.65 years ago, for $75 I think. It's in excellent condition with a perfect bore, but minimally sporterized with a shortened barrel. The problem is accuracy is non existant. The front part of the chamber seems to be damaged or galled, perhaps the reamer chattered or something. I took the barrel off to recrown the muzzle (hadn't been properly done by the person who shortened it), didn't get the receiver wrench on right, and dinged the receiver. Didn't hurt anything functionally, but it bugs me every time I see it. I wanted to convert it to 7.62x39, either that or get rid of it. Has anyone heard of this kind of conversion before?
     
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