edSky
Member
Sorry it didn't get out of committee today, Reverend Nathan. Thanks for the update. I'm not sure Max Brantley and the Arkansas Times helped us any.
Arkansas CHL
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HB1237: Still going...
A few people have contacted me over the last couple of days asking about the status of HB1237. I just want to reassure you all that it is not dead- but the hill may now be a bit steeper to climb thanks in part to a single religious group. More details below- but I have had new people calling, e-mailing, and messaging me over the last couple of days. They were expressing shock that the bill was not passed. If we can get together better next time, I think we can overcome this.
I'll start with the general info:
The bill was not passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, but it has a second chance. With an amendment, this bill can be presented again. An amendment has been drafted which I believe will satisfy some concerns without compromising the rights of any church or CHCL holder. I will provide the specifics of this amendment when it is made public, as I do not want to do so before it is appropriate.
Now, to the specifics. Whitaker, Taylor, and Thompson supported the bill. Johnson was not present, but he is a strong opponent. Luker and Wilkins are also probably hopeless but we don’t need to letup on them. The remaining members, Chairman Wilkinson and Sue Madison are the ones we hope will help tip the scales on the next vote.
Chairman Wilkinson made a point of recognizing his pastor and a colleague who was there to speak in opposition to the bill as "special guests." When debate for the bill came up, he noted that he was a Presbyterian and he had checked and found that four other members of the committee were Presbyterian, too. Religious liberty died right there.
The Presbyterian group opposing the bill is PC USA (READ THIS) . They are not mainstream Presbyterians and certainly do not speak for all Presbyterians, as I was assured by a very vocal supporter who is a Presbyterian.
I am personally troubled that the influence of a single religious group had that much power in swaying the decision of the panel. The only way to counter this will be with a room full of supporters when this comes up again. I was the only pastor there to speak in support of the bill. One other came in, but arrived too late to testify due to work obligations. Others had planned to attend, but were prevented from doing so for various reasons. It happens. Our schedules are very unpredictable, but next time around we need everyone who can to make a point of being there so that if we do lose a few, we won't be left in the same situation again.
Again, thank you all for your support. By the way- most of the pastors supporting this are not CHCL holders, but they do believe in the right of a church to make its own decision on this matter.
Nathan Petty
A few people have contacted me over the last couple of days asking about the status of HB1237. I just want to reassure you all that it is not dead- but the hill may now be a bit steeper to climb thanks in part to a single religious group. More details below- but I have had new people calling, e-mailing, and messaging me over the last couple of days. They were expressing shock that the bill was not passed. If we can get together better next time, I think we can overcome this.
I'll start with the general info:
The bill was not passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, but it has a second chance. With an amendment, this bill can be presented again. An amendment has been drafted which I believe will satisfy some concerns without compromising the rights of any church or CHCL holder. I will provide the specifics of this amendment when it is made public, as I do not want to do so before it is appropriate.
Now, to the specifics. Whitaker, Taylor, and Thompson supported the bill. Johnson was not present, but he is a strong opponent. Luker and Wilkins are also probably hopeless but we don’t need to letup on them. The remaining members, Chairman Wilkinson and Sue Madison are the ones we hope will help tip the scales on the next vote.
Chairman Wilkinson made a point of recognizing his pastor and a colleague who was there to speak in opposition to the bill as "special guests." When debate for the bill came up, he noted that he was a Presbyterian and he had checked and found that four other members of the committee were Presbyterian, too. Religious liberty died right there.
The Presbyterian group opposing the bill is PC USA (READ THIS) . They are not mainstream Presbyterians and certainly do not speak for all Presbyterians, as I was assured by a very vocal supporter who is a Presbyterian.
I am personally troubled that the influence of a single religious group had that much power in swaying the decision of the panel. The only way to counter this will be with a room full of supporters when this comes up again. I was the only pastor there to speak in support of the bill. One other came in, but arrived too late to testify due to work obligations. Others had planned to attend, but were prevented from doing so for various reasons. It happens. Our schedules are very unpredictable, but next time around we need everyone who can to make a point of being there so that if we do lose a few, we won't be left in the same situation again.
Again, thank you all for your support. By the way- most of the pastors supporting this are not CHCL holders, but they do believe in the right of a church to make its own decision on this matter.
Nathan Petty
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razorback2003
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Journey and Place of Business
I am always on a journey when i go to Arkansas to visit friends and relatives because i live in TN. There is absolutely no prohibition to carrying inside a church when 'on a journey' with or without a license. You can carry pretty much anywhere when on a journey, including schools.
If you are a pastor, I'd carry because it is your place of business. Again no license needed.
How does the AR legislature think such a stupid law can be enforced against those who are not on a journey or who the church is not their place of business? It is already going on.....why not make it legal for everyone? I have yet to see metal detectors at any church in Arkansas or pat downs at the doors. This is nothing but a feel good garbage prohibition that lets guns be left in cars and stolen from those who want to strictly follow the law.
I am so glad I can LEGALLY carry in a church in TN because i paid my money to the TN highway patrol to carry. That is the way it should be in Arkansas.
Small handguns are a good thing in AR where you don't know whether you are legal or not sometimes...so best to be discreet and be protected.
I am always on a journey when i go to Arkansas to visit friends and relatives because i live in TN. There is absolutely no prohibition to carrying inside a church when 'on a journey' with or without a license. You can carry pretty much anywhere when on a journey, including schools.
If you are a pastor, I'd carry because it is your place of business. Again no license needed.
How does the AR legislature think such a stupid law can be enforced against those who are not on a journey or who the church is not their place of business? It is already going on.....why not make it legal for everyone? I have yet to see metal detectors at any church in Arkansas or pat downs at the doors. This is nothing but a feel good garbage prohibition that lets guns be left in cars and stolen from those who want to strictly follow the law.
I am so glad I can LEGALLY carry in a church in TN because i paid my money to the TN highway patrol to carry. That is the way it should be in Arkansas.
Small handguns are a good thing in AR where you don't know whether you are legal or not sometimes...so best to be discreet and be protected.
Hungry Seagull
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Arkansas honors TN Conceals and versa last time I looked. Because sometimes we may want to travel on a journey into TN for NC.
Traveling on a Journey is a good strong position for those who are not local.
It's eff'ing iffy for me to say Im traveling on a journey entering church 20 miles away.... but if that Church allows weapons and State allows it then.. no issue for me.
Im going to learn a hell of alot more after my CHL class soon. But I believe most of the churches in our area are non-denominational, Baptist and a few Lutheran, Pentacostals and so on. Why should one set be allow to speak for all inside our State Capital?
Traveling on a Journey is a good strong position for those who are not local.
It's eff'ing iffy for me to say Im traveling on a journey entering church 20 miles away.... but if that Church allows weapons and State allows it then.. no issue for me.
Im going to learn a hell of alot more after my CHL class soon. But I believe most of the churches in our area are non-denominational, Baptist and a few Lutheran, Pentacostals and so on. Why should one set be allow to speak for all inside our State Capital?
It looks like a majority of the Senate Judiciary committee members have banded together to kill this bill.
This is a good time for them to hear from the citizens of Arkansas. The only reason churches are on the list of prohibited places is because the state made a religious judgment call in behalf of all the churches of Arkansas- assuming that a church was no place for a firearm. There is no public safety concern applicable to churches which is not also applicable to other places which are not on the list- such as daycares, nursing homes, hospitals, banks, or funeral homes.
The only reason this has stalled is because some liberal lawmakers have branded it a gun issue rather than a private property rights issue. It is troubling enough that calling it a "gun issue" somehow makes it okay to kill the bill- as if the Second Amendment was in some way a less than desireable law- but to see them deny the rights of private property owners (churches) just because they want to restrict law-abiding gun owners is outright shameful.
Yes, I am mad. I wish I could tell the whole story here and you would understand why I am angry. These anti-gun members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have failed the people of Arkansas, failed the US Constitution, and failed to keep their oath to uphold the Constitution. I hope those who have stalled it find themselves looking for work after the next election.
Taylor, Whitaker, and Thompson are your friends, citizens of Arkansas.
Wilkinson, Wilkins, Luker, Madison, and Johnson would rather see you unarmed and defenseless in a place where only criminals will carry guns.
This is a good time for them to hear from the citizens of Arkansas. The only reason churches are on the list of prohibited places is because the state made a religious judgment call in behalf of all the churches of Arkansas- assuming that a church was no place for a firearm. There is no public safety concern applicable to churches which is not also applicable to other places which are not on the list- such as daycares, nursing homes, hospitals, banks, or funeral homes.
The only reason this has stalled is because some liberal lawmakers have branded it a gun issue rather than a private property rights issue. It is troubling enough that calling it a "gun issue" somehow makes it okay to kill the bill- as if the Second Amendment was in some way a less than desireable law- but to see them deny the rights of private property owners (churches) just because they want to restrict law-abiding gun owners is outright shameful.
Yes, I am mad. I wish I could tell the whole story here and you would understand why I am angry. These anti-gun members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have failed the people of Arkansas, failed the US Constitution, and failed to keep their oath to uphold the Constitution. I hope those who have stalled it find themselves looking for work after the next election.
Taylor, Whitaker, and Thompson are your friends, citizens of Arkansas.
Wilkinson, Wilkins, Luker, Madison, and Johnson would rather see you unarmed and defenseless in a place where only criminals will carry guns.
I would like to urge every arkansas resident to let the Senate Judiciary committee know about the following incidents:
http://wjz.com/local/police.church.shooting.2.941531.html
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/03/shooting-church-maryville-st-louis.html
Two church shootings in the past three Sundays. And one occurred while off-duty police officers were on guard.
Tragic stories. Both victims dead. But at least someone was there to catch the bad guys after they had murdered.
For your conveneince:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Thanks,
Nate
http://wjz.com/local/police.church.shooting.2.941531.html
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/03/shooting-church-maryville-st-louis.html
Two church shootings in the past three Sundays. And one occurred while off-duty police officers were on guard.
Tragic stories. Both victims dead. But at least someone was there to catch the bad guys after they had murdered.
For your conveneince:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Thanks,
Nate
Hungry Seagull
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I'll see about getting something into the mail box down that way.
Rep. Pyle will be running HB1237 again. This means this is our LAST chance to get our voices heard on this. I will let you know as soon as I find out when this will happen.
Please see the story here. Some good details:
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=81421&catid=2
This is obviously a response to the murder of Pastor Fred Winters in Illinois
this past Sunday. That makes two church murders in the U.S. since this bill was sent to the Senate (the other, Patricia Ann Kelly, was murdered by her estranged husband at a church where three off-duty police officers were on guard on Feb. 22 in Maryland).
It is a shame that something less than dead bodies would not catch the attention of the Judiciary Committee members.
Thanks,
Nathan
Please see the story here. Some good details:
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=81421&catid=2
This is obviously a response to the murder of Pastor Fred Winters in Illinois
this past Sunday. That makes two church murders in the U.S. since this bill was sent to the Senate (the other, Patricia Ann Kelly, was murdered by her estranged husband at a church where three off-duty police officers were on guard on Feb. 22 in Maryland).
It is a shame that something less than dead bodies would not catch the attention of the Judiciary Committee members.
Thanks,
Nathan
Hungry Seagull
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I was just about to post that same link.
Seems that recent church shooting in Illinois caused some of our Lawmakers to reconsider. Now we have a chance to get the rest on board.
It would be very good indeed to see this bill advance. Particularly after killing in a church.
Seems that recent church shooting in Illinois caused some of our Lawmakers to reconsider. Now we have a chance to get the rest on board.
It would be very good indeed to see this bill advance. Particularly after killing in a church.
HB1237, the “church carry bill” is on the agenda for the Senate Judiciary Committee TOMORROW, Wednesday, March 11. Right now I am waiting on a confirmation as to whether or not the bill will actually be run tomorrow. But, since it is such short notice, I wanted to give everyone a big heads up on this. I will send out another message later this evening to confirm this agenda, but right now it looks like 10 am tomorrow.
Please do not think that HB1237 is going to pass easily. We still need your physical presence and your vocal support in this meeting. It will still be very close.
Thank you,
Nathan Petty
Please do not think that HB1237 is going to pass easily. We still need your physical presence and your vocal support in this meeting. It will still be very close.
Thank you,
Nathan Petty
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HB1237: The last stand
The Senate Judiciary Committee will hear HB1237 on Wednesday, March 18 at 10am- that is one week from today.
I think we were all caught off guard when HB1237 was not passed by this committee last time. But this is our second chance- a chance to do it right. The sentiment of some committee members is beginning to sway towards supporting this bill. A strong show of support next Wednesday will undoubtedly help tip the scales in our favor.
The Senate Judiciary Committee will meet in room 171. Enter the Capitol building on either the east or west side. If entering the east, go under the stairs and enter through the glass doors. Room 171 is in the south wing of the Capitol. When you reach the stairs on the south end, look to your left and there you will see room 171.
I have found that some folks have been reluctant to attend these meetings because it sounds intimidating: big granite building filled with worsted wool and super-egos. But don’t be intimidated. That’s your building and those people are there to listen to you.
Please let me know if you plan to attend so that we can get an idea on where we will stand with supporters. Regardless of which way this goes, this will be the last chance any of us have to make our voices heard on HB1237. I am optimistic, but cautiously so.
Thanks,
Nathan
The Senate Judiciary Committee will hear HB1237 on Wednesday, March 18 at 10am- that is one week from today.
I think we were all caught off guard when HB1237 was not passed by this committee last time. But this is our second chance- a chance to do it right. The sentiment of some committee members is beginning to sway towards supporting this bill. A strong show of support next Wednesday will undoubtedly help tip the scales in our favor.
The Senate Judiciary Committee will meet in room 171. Enter the Capitol building on either the east or west side. If entering the east, go under the stairs and enter through the glass doors. Room 171 is in the south wing of the Capitol. When you reach the stairs on the south end, look to your left and there you will see room 171.
I have found that some folks have been reluctant to attend these meetings because it sounds intimidating: big granite building filled with worsted wool and super-egos. But don’t be intimidated. That’s your building and those people are there to listen to you.
Please let me know if you plan to attend so that we can get an idea on where we will stand with supporters. Regardless of which way this goes, this will be the last chance any of us have to make our voices heard on HB1237. I am optimistic, but cautiously so.
Thanks,
Nathan
Hungry Seagull
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RevNate, it aint the building. I was around DC quite a bit in youth.
Watch out for that parking down there. We aint got booted yet.... That is our biggest concern. Parking.
If many people show up parking is going to be a challenge.
Watch out for that parking down there. We aint got booted yet.... That is our biggest concern. Parking.
If many people show up parking is going to be a challenge.
The earlier the better.Amendendment filed to the bill.
As amended, it would now read:
"(16) Any church or place of worship unless otherwise permitted
by the church or place of worship;"
This will completely remove the debate over signs and will allow each church to set its own policy.
As amended, it would now read:
"(16) Any church or place of worship unless otherwise permitted
by the church or place of worship;"
This will completely remove the debate over signs and will allow each church to set its own policy.
HB1237 has been amended again and as it now stands would read, “"(16) Any church or place of worship except that this subdivision (16) does not apply to a church or place of worship if the church or place of worship has specifically authorized a licensee to carry a concealed handgun into the church or place of worship;”
I will be honest and say that I am not totally happy with this wording, but I will still support it. The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Pyle, has tried every imaginable option to formulate wording that will get this bill out of this committee. As it stands now, this wording should pass.
I am very unhappy about the letter of the law in this bill, but I support it because in the end it will allow a church to make its own decision. As it was explained to me, a church would simply have to say “we will not prosecute anyone who lawfully carries or uses a concealed weapon” without actually authorizing anyone to carry.
This bill will go before the Senate Judiciary Committee again tomorrow (March 18th) at 10 am in room 171.
I will be honest and say that I am not totally happy with this wording, but I will still support it. The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Pyle, has tried every imaginable option to formulate wording that will get this bill out of this committee. As it stands now, this wording should pass.
I am very unhappy about the letter of the law in this bill, but I support it because in the end it will allow a church to make its own decision. As it was explained to me, a church would simply have to say “we will not prosecute anyone who lawfully carries or uses a concealed weapon” without actually authorizing anyone to carry.
This bill will go before the Senate Judiciary Committee again tomorrow (March 18th) at 10 am in room 171.
HB1237 is slated to be run before the Senate Judiciary Committee TOMORROW Wednesday March 25 at 10 am.
Here is the situation: We have 4 solid votes and one who is “iffy.” Five are needed to pass this bill. Discussions are taking place this afternoon to solidify the 5 needed votes. The one on the fence is Hank Wilkins. He has stated that his decision may come down to testimony offered in the meeting tomorrow.
The people behind this bill have contacted me and asked if we (pastors, supporters) could be on standby if we are needed tomorrow. I will know sometime this evening- though it may be late- if there is a need for us to be there.
I'm just giving everyone a heads-up. If you are able, please make tentative plans to attend this meeting and speak in support of HB1237. I will send out another update this evening as soon as I receive word on whether our presence will be necessary.
Again- the sponsor DOES plan to run the bill tomorrow, and it MAY come down to how many supporters vs. opponents are in the room.
Here is the situation: We have 4 solid votes and one who is “iffy.” Five are needed to pass this bill. Discussions are taking place this afternoon to solidify the 5 needed votes. The one on the fence is Hank Wilkins. He has stated that his decision may come down to testimony offered in the meeting tomorrow.
The people behind this bill have contacted me and asked if we (pastors, supporters) could be on standby if we are needed tomorrow. I will know sometime this evening- though it may be late- if there is a need for us to be there.
I'm just giving everyone a heads-up. If you are able, please make tentative plans to attend this meeting and speak in support of HB1237. I will send out another update this evening as soon as I receive word on whether our presence will be necessary.
Again- the sponsor DOES plan to run the bill tomorrow, and it MAY come down to how many supporters vs. opponents are in the room.
Hungry Seagull
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Hank Wilkins?
http://www.arkansas.gov/senate/details.php?district=5
Is this Him?
This fella is probably going to be a little tough to sway one way or the other. Pine Bluff is a very tough place with much trouble and Prisions.
I wonder if there has been any kind of Positive incidents or events in Pine Bluff recently where law abiding citizens actually did some good with weapons.
http://www.arkansas.gov/senate/details.php?district=5
Is this Him?
This fella is probably going to be a little tough to sway one way or the other. Pine Bluff is a very tough place with much trouble and Prisions.
I wonder if there has been any kind of Positive incidents or events in Pine Bluff recently where law abiding citizens actually did some good with weapons.
HB1237 will be run tomorrow and we do need to be there. The final decision will likely come down to the testimony given during this meeting.
Sen. Hank Wilkins, the swing vote, is a minister. It would likely be helpful to address the issue of church rights and the state's error in overstepping its bounds to make a religious decision.
Meeting is 10 am in room 171. We especially need pastors who will support this to be present. All support is welcomed and will be beneficial, but in the end it will probably be the voice of the pastors which will speak most loudly to the committee.
Thanks,
Nathan
Sen. Hank Wilkins, the swing vote, is a minister. It would likely be helpful to address the issue of church rights and the state's error in overstepping its bounds to make a religious decision.
Meeting is 10 am in room 171. We especially need pastors who will support this to be present. All support is welcomed and will be beneficial, but in the end it will probably be the voice of the pastors which will speak most loudly to the committee.
Thanks,
Nathan
Failed
You can read the story here:
http://www.arkansascca.org/blog/?content=detail&id=322
Hopeully an AG opinion will fix this problem.
You can read the story here:
http://www.arkansascca.org/blog/?content=detail&id=322
Hopeully an AG opinion will fix this problem.
- Status
