kd7nqb
Member
Buy lots of Ak's and tell them to get off the high horse of being anti surplus. Otherwise buy a ton of S&W M&P .40's because they are my favorite gun ever.
Arm a developing country on the cheap
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cluttonfred
Member
To clarify...
This is entirely fictional.
The size of the 1,000 member force was chosen make the math easier, nothing more.
I deliberately created a scenario to rule out surplus guns only because that would become a very different thread. I wanted to hear people's thoughts about arming a small force on the cheap with what you can get at Big 5.
Folks are taking this a little too seriously, I'm afraid.
This is entirely fictional.
The size of the 1,000 member force was chosen make the math easier, nothing more.
I deliberately created a scenario to rule out surplus guns only because that would become a very different thread. I wanted to hear people's thoughts about arming a small force on the cheap with what you can get at Big 5.
Folks are taking this a little too seriously, I'm afraid.
Thernlund
Member
I thought it was fun, even if I didn't play by the rules.
-T.
yakkingallover
Member
NEF single shot 12 gauge, S&W Sigma in 9mm and spend the rest on cases of slugs,buckshot and hollow points scatter in some bolt rifles to every 50th man and spend what's left on beers.....
jaholder1971
Member
I really don't know how a small country is going to get weapons without being beholden to someone without making their own, even then there's going to be licensing issues and End User agreements to deal with from some country.
Rifles on an AR15 platform can probably be had for around $450-475 in the amounts this country's looking for. They may not be Colt's or FN's but there's got to be a domestic U.S. maker of quality rifles on the AR15 platform that can make them for this price at a profit. 60 percent of these rifles would be standard A2, 30 percent an M$ carbine and the remaining would sport a 24" 1X8 twist for distinguished marksman/sniper role.
GLock 9mm's are running about $350 or so with the LEO discount, so a bulk order of 200 to equip the officers and NCO's is going to be 70 Big or less if Glock will sell at an even bigger discount.
Since this country is not a member of the Hague treaty it's Mk.262 5.56mm for the rifles and 124 grain JHP +p for the Glocks.
SO, for around $500K, probably closer to $600,000 one coulds conceivably arm a small nation with modern military small arms.
Rifles on an AR15 platform can probably be had for around $450-475 in the amounts this country's looking for. They may not be Colt's or FN's but there's got to be a domestic U.S. maker of quality rifles on the AR15 platform that can make them for this price at a profit. 60 percent of these rifles would be standard A2, 30 percent an M$ carbine and the remaining would sport a 24" 1X8 twist for distinguished marksman/sniper role.
GLock 9mm's are running about $350 or so with the LEO discount, so a bulk order of 200 to equip the officers and NCO's is going to be 70 Big or less if Glock will sell at an even bigger discount.
Since this country is not a member of the Hague treaty it's Mk.262 5.56mm for the rifles and 124 grain JHP +p for the Glocks.
SO, for around $500K, probably closer to $600,000 one coulds conceivably arm a small nation with modern military small arms.
Wes Janson
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Street pricing can't be applied here. Whoever gave figures of $660 for a Kel-Tec SU-16 is wildly off-base, as I'd imagine in quantity they'd be less than 2/3rds that amount. That fact must be kept in mind.
The real question is, what non-surplus non-AK/AR-pattern rifles are currently available on the market and don't cost an arm and a leg. And realistically, the answer is "Not a whole hell of a lot". Mainly because a modern semi-auto costs quite a bit to make, and it's largely the economies of scale that act to bring down the prices of AKs and ARs. Your alternate platforms (SIG 556, DSA FAL, PTR-91, MSAR STG-556, etc) tend to cost more in comparison because there's fewer of them being built.
I'm going to refrain from commenting on the thought of equipping an actual army with pistol-caliber rifles, handguns, or shotguns, as the primary issue weapon.
The real question is, what non-surplus non-AK/AR-pattern rifles are currently available on the market and don't cost an arm and a leg. And realistically, the answer is "Not a whole hell of a lot". Mainly because a modern semi-auto costs quite a bit to make, and it's largely the economies of scale that act to bring down the prices of AKs and ARs. Your alternate platforms (SIG 556, DSA FAL, PTR-91, MSAR STG-556, etc) tend to cost more in comparison because there's fewer of them being built.
I'm going to refrain from commenting on the thought of equipping an actual army with pistol-caliber rifles, handguns, or shotguns, as the primary issue weapon.
leadcounsel
member
Invest the money into chemistry courses and inexpensive bomb making materials for the IEDs that they would use to fight the occupying force. Buy Savage .308 rifles and scopes for all 1,000, teach them all how to be snipers and do recon, etc. Snipers just need one accurate shot and then disappear.
As we've seen, morale plummets when an occupying force is harassed with IEDs and occassional sniper fire.
As we've seen, morale plummets when an occupying force is harassed with IEDs and occassional sniper fire.
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cluttonfred
Member
On the mixed-duty police-military roles, even a lot of countries that have armies have a police force that does double duty as military reserves, like the U.S. national guards. French Gendarmerie is a perfect example - they are basically the very serious police, a bit like State Troopers mixed with FBI, but they get some military training and fall under military command in time of war. Many countries, francophone and others, have similar models.
Big45
member
A million bucks? That won't even get you 2 million rounds of .223 these days
If all you got is a million I'd try to find a tac nuke on the cheap and announce to the world that if anyone invades us we are going to detonate this thing.
If all you got is a million I'd try to find a tac nuke on the cheap and announce to the world that if anyone invades us we are going to detonate this thing.
woodybrighton
member
probably get all you want for gratis for signing up for the war on terror
failing that aks rpgs whole sale from the ukraine
last time I was there a new ak was $100 same for and RPG launcher and that was tourist price
failing that aks rpgs whole sale from the ukraine
last time I was there a new ak was $100 same for and RPG launcher and that was tourist price
Bigdtc
Member
As a project manager, I would have to look at sub-contracting the military altogether and buy the cops some 9mm. Hi-Point pistols and carbines.Tight budget= outside the box.
Nolo
Member
Why no surplus weapons?
Anyway, on a budget like half a mil, here's what I'd do:
Set up a domestic machine shop. It doesn't have to be complicated, I've got a strategy here.
This machine shop probably should cost anywhere from $100,000-$200,000 (It's not a rifle manufacturing plant, just a machine shop), I'll say $200K because I'm a pessimist.
So you go get you hands on a STEN gun or an M3A1 Grease Gun, not to own, but to merely copy every single part.
I'll go with a STEN, as it's simpler and runs off of the preferred ammo--9mm.
So you get the specs on the STEN and mass produce them at your little shop until you have 1,000. if you want to be really cool, modify the magazine well to accept some more available and reliable mags and buy a bunch of those, say, 5 per gun. Or you can manufacture them yourself, it's not hard.
Then you use the rest of your money to buy ammo, and lots of it.
Bada-bing, bada-boom, you have a small fighting force that's pretty good at what it does, and, while it doesn't have the capability to disable armor and such, it does pretty good as a small integrity force.
As your next annual budget comes in, buy a lot of various explosives, RPGs, C4, I don't care.
Just get the capability to blow up stuff.
EDIT: I did read the guidelines, I just don't see why a country can't domestically produce cheap, effective submachineguns at home. And others don't see why the country can't buy surplus. And I don't, either.
Anyway, on a budget like half a mil, here's what I'd do:
Set up a domestic machine shop. It doesn't have to be complicated, I've got a strategy here.
This machine shop probably should cost anywhere from $100,000-$200,000 (It's not a rifle manufacturing plant, just a machine shop), I'll say $200K because I'm a pessimist.
So you go get you hands on a STEN gun or an M3A1 Grease Gun, not to own, but to merely copy every single part.
I'll go with a STEN, as it's simpler and runs off of the preferred ammo--9mm.
So you get the specs on the STEN and mass produce them at your little shop until you have 1,000. if you want to be really cool, modify the magazine well to accept some more available and reliable mags and buy a bunch of those, say, 5 per gun. Or you can manufacture them yourself, it's not hard.
Then you use the rest of your money to buy ammo, and lots of it.
Bada-bing, bada-boom, you have a small fighting force that's pretty good at what it does, and, while it doesn't have the capability to disable armor and such, it does pretty good as a small integrity force.
As your next annual budget comes in, buy a lot of various explosives, RPGs, C4, I don't care.
Just get the capability to blow up stuff.
EDIT: I did read the guidelines, I just don't see why a country can't domestically produce cheap, effective submachineguns at home. And others don't see why the country can't buy surplus. And I don't, either.
Officer Corps:
50 Springield GI's @ $519 each ($25,950)
NCO Corps and junior enlisted personnel:
950 Kahr M-1 Carbines @$595 each ($565,250)
950 M4 Bayonets at $29 each
Those prices assume full retail pricing, sans discounts for quantity. They could probably pull a significant discount buying in quantity, direct from the mfgr.
Special Purpose:
25 Tech Force 78T Air rifles. Bulk fill CO2. For basic marksmanship training on the cheap. (2500)
10 Remington 700 Deer Rifles (.308) @ $395 (used), basic hunting type scopes. Could be drawn by qualified personnel as ordered for DMR/ Sniper use. ($3950) Could be issued out to free up carbines for officers.
25 Mossberg 14" 590A1 Entry guns with ghost ring sites. issued as necessary. Could also be used to free up rifles for officers.
1 integral suppressed 10/22 and scope. For quietly eliminating high profile targets if/ as necesary.
The air rifles would be an immediate purchase item along with the .45's and carbines. The other special purpose rifles would be procured over time as funds allow.
ctdonath
Member
...maybe that hints at why the US has the best military.
how about every one gets a new set of fruit of the looms flip flpos and 2 1860 cap and ball revolvers....lol!
ok on the serious side save the money and do like some european countries do. Set up a one time tax per person to buy proper arms and equipment and arm the whole country at the age of 13. Every one is up for recall all the time. Also start a national pride get folks to like their government and their country instead of turning them against their leaders.
ok on the serious side save the money and do like some european countries do. Set up a one time tax per person to buy proper arms and equipment and arm the whole country at the age of 13. Every one is up for recall all the time. Also start a national pride get folks to like their government and their country instead of turning them against their leaders.
LegalAlien
Member
Welllllll . . I would suggest they go to Miami, where, according to Police Chief Timoney, you can get an AK47 for less than $200 on the street.
By doing that, they would provide a great service to Miami, by removing the hoards of AK47 assault rifles from the street and make it safer for the police and citizenry again.
Just a thought.
By doing that, they would provide a great service to Miami, by removing the hoards of AK47 assault rifles from the street and make it safer for the police and citizenry again.
Just a thought.
theotherwaldo
Member
Yep. That's why I keep suggesting MAS 36s. They're French - can't get more unmilitary than that!
For Freedom
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Well assuming that $1 million doesn't go to ammo costs, accessories, tools, or spare parts, I'd only buy Colt M4s. I believe the US government buys them for $450 or so. They would also be the "M4A1" version, so full automatic.
Pistols aren't necessary. All military personnel would be required to carry their carbines at all times, like the Israelis do.
Civilians would be encouraged to buy weapons as well. The only gun regulations would have to do with people arrested or in jail.
Pistols aren't necessary. All military personnel would be required to carry their carbines at all times, like the Israelis do.
Civilians would be encouraged to buy weapons as well. The only gun regulations would have to do with people arrested or in jail.
For Freedom
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Anybody else like my M4 idea?
Cellar Dweller
Member
Exactly how "tactical" and "accessorized" can one get for the other $500?
How about advertising to tourists that the militia/army/P.D. is more badassed than any other agency on the planet, given that it is composed of individually loaded (implies patience) 10mm (implies mushroom clouds
) from men and women who can "handle" the prodigious recoil (implies strength)?1000 x Glock 20 = $535,000 (~Gunbroker)
2000 x 15 round mags = $30,000 (CDNN)
1000 x Lee Anniversary kits + 4-die set = $111,480 (Natchez)
1000 x nylon holster + 2-mag pouch = $14,980 (CDNN)
1000 x 500 rounds UMC training/FMJ ammo = $239,400
1000 x 100 rounds Hornady XTP ammo = $68,500
$640 left for shipping and beer...Powder, bullets, primers to be provided by the new government.
...
invest the million in growing hemp & coca,
sell it to some fastfood & cokeloving country
and ...buy whatever.
i´d give 700 of them a TT33 for police duty
and equip the 300 soldiers with decent Assault rifles.
If one rifle falls... there´s still 700 guys who can pick it up.
i guess it´s guerilla anyway once u get invaded.
Might just invest into Pistols with AP-ammo,
so the invaders will never be happy patrolling the streets.
(...what does this remind me of?)
invest the million in growing hemp & coca,
sell it to some fastfood & cokeloving country
and ...buy whatever.
i´d give 700 of them a TT33 for police duty
and equip the 300 soldiers with decent Assault rifles.
If one rifle falls... there´s still 700 guys who can pick it up.
i guess it´s guerilla anyway once u get invaded.
Might just invest into Pistols with AP-ammo,
so the invaders will never be happy patrolling the streets.
(...what does this remind me of?)
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