Panzerschwein
member
The new FBI report under discussion in Activism drives home that the only effective and realisticly feesible response to lethal gunfire is lethal gunfire.
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Armed citizens and legal carry isn't new.Okay. No dispute there. But what does law enforcement do if it comes upon the scene while the action is In progress? Who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? I’m afraid that standard police procedures assume only bad guys are armed. LEOs are already nervous as hell about encountering armed civilians. And they tend to err on the side of caution which means a lot of innocent folks are getting shot by the law. They don’t have to actually be armed. They just have to have something in their hand. How are the cops going to cope with legalized carry. Just wondering how it is going to work.
Its worked before. Legalized carry is a right imo...and our Forefathers.Okay. No dispute there. But what does law enforcement do if it comes upon the scene while the action is In progress? Who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? I’m afraid that standard police procedures assume only bad guys are armed. LEOs are already nervous as hell about encountering armed civilians. And they tend to err on the side of caution which means a lot of innocent folks are getting shot by the law. They don’t have to actually be armed. They just have to have something in their hand. How are the cops going to cope with legalized carry. Just wondering how it is going to work.
Side note, I disagree. I believe the properly trained armed citizen knows how to react when an officer arrives on the scene. If he/she doesn't, then their training wasn't sufficient, which is rare considering ccw classes teach you what to plan for when an officer shows to the scene.Okay. No dispute there. But what does law enforcement do if it comes upon the scene while the action is In progress? Who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? I’m afraid that standard police procedures assume only bad guys are armed. LEOs are already nervous as hell about encountering armed civilians. And they tend to err on the side of caution which means a lot of innocent folks are getting shot by the law. They don’t have to actually be armed. They just have to have something in their hand. How are the cops going to cope with legalized carry. Just wondering how it is going to work.
And actually it also hasn’t worked before. The famous lawmen of the post-Civil War West were paid to do one thing, disarm the populace of the frontier towns and the cattle drive cowboys who passed through. I’m not saying they were Constitutionally justified in doing that. I’m saying that the hallmark of a civilized society throughout US history has been the absence of both open and concealed carry. The way a frontier city demonstrated it had come of age was to remove handguns from the daily experience of the population. Like it or not, that is how it was.Its worked before. Legalized carry is a right imo...and our Forefathers.
Where is it that LEO's have these tendencies? I have not seen it.Work to develop ways that innocent gun-carrying citizens can be protected against “shoot first and ask questions later” tendencies of the local constabulary.
You don’t think the many shootings of unarmed citizens over the last few years displays this tendency? In Florida? In Missouri? In New York? On and on. Or does it not count if the victim is black?Where is it that LEO's have these tendencies? I have not seen it.
Define "many" and explain what race has to do with the topic of this thread.You don’t think the many shootings of unarmed citizens over the last few years displays this tendency? In Florida? In Missouri? In New York? On and on. Or does it not count if the victim is black?
You don’t think the many shootings of unarmed citizens over the last few years displays this tendency? In Florida? In Missouri? In New York? On and on. Or does it not count if the victim is black?
Are you kidding? Have you no awareness of the police on innocent citizen shootings all across the country? Are you pretending not to know that the vast majority of the victims have been black.Define "many" and explain what race has to do with the topic of this thread.
The famous lawmen of the post-Civil War West were paid to do one thing, disarm the populace of the frontier towns and the cattle drive cowboys who passed through. I’m not saying they were Constitutionally justified in doing that. I’m saying that the hallmark of a civilized society throughout US history has been the absence of both open and concealed carry. The way a frontier city demonstrated it had come of age was to remove handguns from the daily experience of the population. Like it or not, that is how it was.
I don’t know the answers to your questions. I’m just saying that in the place where slinging guns became legendary, getting rid of them was considered a stepping stone to normalization. I’m not talking about right or wrong, just what was.But were those "frontier towns" truly civilized, meaning peaceful and relatively crime-free, once their citizens were so disarmed? Was simply having laws against carrying handguns "the hallmark of a civilized society"? Does that hold true today?
No I'm not kidding.Are you kidding? Have you no awareness of the police on innocent citizen shootings all across the country? Are you pretending not to know that the vast majority of the victims have been black.
Who has their own facts?You folks are amazing. You have your own facts. “Charge a cop”? “Fight with a cop?” “Waving fake guns?” How about be found standing in a back yard with a telephone in your hand. Bang, you’re dead! Fact is the police are scared out of their wits and are overreacting to imagined guns. Wait until they see the real thing. Don’t expect them to check out your carry permit before shooting.
Something we agree on.I don’t know the answers to your questions.
Arizona has had unregulated open carry for over 100 years and Constitutional Carry for 8 years.How are the cops going to cope with legalized carry. Just wondering how it is going to work.
See above.And actually it also hasn’t worked before.
And you are wrong. I live in a place where it has been normal for longer than you and I put together have been alive. Even in Tombstone, where the Earp era law was grandfathered in at statehood, the law was eventually repealed making it "normalized" with the rest of the state. You can legally carry openly or concealed, any number of legal firearms as long as you are not a prohibited possessor and obey the signage, and you may do this without permit or license, waiting period or registration. BTW, Phoenix, AZ had just over half the population of Chicago, but less than 20% of the murder/non negligent manslaughter - can you explain that?I’m just saying that in the place where slinging guns became legendary, getting rid of them was considered a stepping stone to normalization. I’m not talking about right or wrong, just what was.
May I borrow this? Sorry, me too. The FBI data is very interesting, especially when the media and idiot celebrities claim no armed citizens ever stop crime.MedWheeler said:I'm guilty myself of losing track of the actual thread subject, and had to scroll back up to review the title. It appears to be well off-topic now, so I'll step back.
Okay. No dispute there. But what does law enforcement do if it comes upon the scene while the action is In progress? Who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? I’m afraid that standard police procedures assume only bad guys are armed. LEOs are already nervous as hell about encountering armed civilians. And they tend to err on the side of caution which means a lot of innocent folks are getting shot by the law. They don’t have to actually be armed. They just have to have something in their hand. How are the cops going to cope with legalized carry. Just wondering how it is going to work.
Nothing is refuted or debunked. You confirmed what I said, that the good conservative citizens of some western cities desired to be gun free on their streets. There was no right or wrong being preached, but that fact. That such laws were eventually repealed or modified doesn’t change that they existed.Arizona has had unregulated open carry for over 100 years and Constitutional Carry for 8 years.
See above.
{entire section removed as not to bait the troll}
And you are wrong. I live in a place where it has been normal for longer than you and I put together have been alive. Even in Tombstone, where the Earp era law was grandfathered in at statehood, the law was eventually repealed making it "normalized" with the rest of the state. You can legally carry openly or concealed, any number of legal firearms as long as you are not a prohibited possessor and obey the signage, and you may do this without permit or license, waiting period or registration. BTW, Phoenix, AZ had just over half the population of Chicago, but less than 20% of the murder/non negligent manslaughter - can you explain that?
So global statement refuted and debunked. Please deposit another $.25 to play again.
May I borrow this? Sorry, me too. The FBI data is very interesting, especially when the media and idiot celebrities claim no armed citizens ever stop crime.
Are you kidding? Have you no awareness of the police on innocent citizen shootings all across the country? Are you pretending not to know that the vast majority of the victims have been black.
Side note, I disagree. I believe the properly trained armed citizen knows how to react when an officer arrives on the scene. If he/she doesn't, then their training wasn't sufficient, which is rare considering ccw classes teach you what to plan for when an officer shows to the scene.