Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, LLC

[threefeathers]

I've been a member for several years and was able to assist Mas and Marty wiith one of the described cases. This case resulted in a young family man being set free and having a life with his family. They covered his expenses and guided the attorney's.
You just don't find folks with the knowledge that Mas Ayoob and Marty Hayes have in these matters.

 

[JustinJ]

Do they have a 24 hour phone line available to assist with speaking to LE post event?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Most questions about the organization are probably best answered by the organization itself - http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ is the home page, http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/contact/ask-a-question for questions not otherwise addressed.

fwiw,

lpl

 

[Marty Hayes]

Hi ya'all, I was just made aware of this thread. Am tied up for a few more hours, but will be back later and start answering the questions and addressing the concerns.

 

[altitude_19]

Looking forward to it!

 

[Marty Hayes]

"They have only had one member involved in a shooting to date."

Taking the questions or comments in chronological order. To clarify, our one instance of a member of the Network needing our services was not a shooting, but an act of self-defense without shots being fired. He was arrested for 2 counts of aggrevated assault. The case was just adjudicated without a trial, no felony convictions. Can't say more than that, but everyone is happy, I understand.

 

[Marty Hayes]

"They only pay up to 10K? That's not much, especially for such steep fees. A murder or manslaughter case can cost MUCH MUCH more...."

No, the $10K is to get the member instant representation, to allow for an independant investigation of the event, and to interact with police and prosecution before charges are filed, (in a hope charges are not filed). If a grand jury state, to represent member durig those proceedings.

If member is charged with a crime, then the next level kicks in, being a grant for additional attorneys fees, dependant on the amount in our legal defense fund. At the moment, we have $135,000 in that fund, which will go a long way towards a completely paying for a legal defense.

 

[G27RR]

I spent a lot of time considering it, and joined a while back. If you look through their website, your questions should be covered pretty well. You can also read past journals, etc.

They have a good read on the Hickey case.

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey Booklet.pdf

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I am a member. The monthly newsletters have had some excellent articles. Also, when you join you get some good dvds. In each monthly newsletter, the include an ask the laywer section where new laywers joining the network answer the monthly question bing askewd. The Aug monthly newsletter had a really nice interview with Rob Pincus. Should you even need to use your firearm, the fact that they have a 24 hour member number you can call to get your legal reps rolling will be invaluable when you and your family are in a high stress situation.

 

[BFC]

Whether you agree with me or not, it's ok. I just think that having insurance like this could get twisted around in cour

No way, same would hold true for any other insurance. Malpractice insurance doesn't make a doctor look bad in court. Full car coverage doesn't mean you intend to wreck it ect......

 

[Marty Hayes]

"So this is basically a type of insurance, more or less? That's what I am gathering. "

No, not really. Being a member of the Network is not like having insurance. Insurance protects you against unforeseen events, (like a tree falling on your house." The act of self-defense is a voluntary, intentional act, and thus, a voluntary, intentional act cannot be insured against.

And, while we have agreed as part of the member benefits to forward up to $10k for attorney fees after a voluntary act of self-defense, we rely upon the legitimacy of your act in the event we were to award additional money for a court defense. So far, we have not had to enact that provision, which required complete discovery of the incident, (thorugh your attorney), then the advisory board (Dennis Tueller, John Farnum, Mas Ayoob, Tom Givens) will review the case, insure it's legitimacy and we will make a determination on how much money to front for your legal defense. That is predicated primarily upon the amount of money we have in the legal defense fund, which at this time is $135k. That legal defense fund is funded by us taking 25% of member dues ($85 per year) and putting it in a seperate bank account, to sit by drawing a very slight amount of interest until needed.

 

[Marty Hayes]

"Do they have a 24 hour phone line available to assist with speaking to LE post event?
"

Kind of. I'll explain.

The first line of defense should be hour own attorney. To help members find attorneys, we have been working dilligently for the last 3 years to establish a member referral network of attorneys. I think we have 46 of the 50 states covered, with over 200 attorneys. This is a long term project, but eventually, our goal is to have attorneys from every county bar association in the country as part of the Network. But, this is only to help the member find their own attorney. The members need to do some work on their own, to establish that attorney/client relationship.

But, we also know that not all members have attorneys in their area they can locate and get hooked up with, so in the event that occurs, we have the "boots on the ground" program. We recognize that having an advocate with "boots on the ground" in your area, to interact with family, and to help locate the attorney you need and pay him or her a retainer on your behalf is critical. So, having said that, a member or his family can call our office during daytime hours, or my personal cell phone after hours, and we will activate this program. Either I will personally hop on a plane and fly to your location to start your legal defense, or if we have a trusted instructor, board member or other person who is closer and can perform that for you, we will call upon them to do this. In any event, you should have your legal defense started within 24 hours of us getting a phone call.

In the one incident we have had so far where a member needed our assistance, we recieved a call from his father about 10:00 am, and we were fortunate enough to have a network affiliated attorney in the local area. A call to his office resulted in him meeting with the member within a few hours to start that legal representation. In the lag time between insuring he had this legal representation and confirmation that he did, I had made plans to have one of our Network Affiliated Instructors start working on the case for him, and to pick me up at the airport the next day if needed. But, as it turned out, that wasn't necessary.

One of the reasons for this program was born out of the Hickey case, where I felt after reviewing what occured in the immediate aftermath of the incident, if he would have had this in place, things may have gone much smoother for him to begin with. (now, having said that, after seeing what type of prosecutor's office Pima County Arizona has, I have my doubts, but perhaps it would have helped.) At least we could have arranged for an attorney who understood what was needed, and started an immediate investigation of our own, which WOULD have helped immensey.

Okay, there you have it folks. I think I covered the main questions and issues. Please feel free to ask any other questions while I am around.

 

[ErikO]

My family will be signing up for this very soon. Just having access to experts at your level, Mr Hayes, makes this very valuable indeed. Thanks for offering this, I hope to never need it.

 

[Marty Hayes]

Thanks Erik. We hope you never need it either!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Marty,

Thanks much for the information. Don't be a stranger!

lpl

 

[BFC]

85$ a year seems pretty cheap to me, that's $1.63 a week.......membership just went up by one.

 

[Marty Hayes]

Thanks Lee and BFC. Regarding being a stranger, between running the Network and still running the Firearms Academy of Seattle, along with more and more expert witness work and trying to cram in a round of golf now and then, (and don't forget the all too short summer months here in the Pacific Northwet) for motorcycle riding, I find myself with less and less Internet Forum cruising time. Will try to do a better job though.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm joining today. At $7 per month, it's a no-brainer. That's a trivial amount of money.

They only pay up to 10K? That's not much, especially for such steep fees. A murder or manslaughter case can cost MUCH MUCH more....

$10,000 may not be a lot of money, but if you need it then your investment has paid off 1200 to 1! And the initial actions are generally the most critical in any defense case. Most people don't have $10,000 retainer to get a great lawyer and experts on your case immediately (hard to get a home equity loan from jail). The sooner you get representation in this type of case, the better. If you're really in deep, you'll likely have to cough up another $20,000... but you'll buy yourself some time to get together the money.

Oh, and I am a defense lawyer in the Army. I'm signing up for this service today. Again, do the math. This service costs less than $.25 cents per day!!!

 

[sidheshooter]

^^^Plus, even if you never personally see a dime on your own investment, that money (currently $1700 for 20 years!) may well go to a fellow responsible shooter who dearly needs it after a legit self defense incident, and I'm more than good with chipping in a few bucks a year on that.

I was meaning to do this in the past; thanks for bumping this and reminding me, L.C.

 

[Marty Hayes]

Thank-you guys. Don't forget the $165,000 in our legal defense fund, available for full-scale legal defense of a Network Member if prosecuted because of a legitimate act of self-defense. We hope to go several more years before having to tap into it, but it is there for us if needed.

 

[colorado_handgunner]

Just joined up tonight. I like the idea of having the insurance and being able to help out some one else if I never need it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[leadcounsel]

Since my initial posting, I researched and joined the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, deciding that $85 annually, or about the cost of 1 9mm bullet every day, is worth the protectios that the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network provides.

I am a defense lawyer (currenlty unaffiliated with the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network other than being a member) and have been a prosecutor before this. I have defended serious felonies. I can say that over-zelous prosecutors or mistaken witnesses can cause a nightmare for the wrongly accused. I've cleared the names of many, but it has come at great personal expense to those accused.

I can also say this - the first 24 hours of an incident/allegation are the most important. You better be able to pony up legal fees and lawyer up immediately. Shut up and let your lawyer do the talking, whether you're innocent or guilty. Your 'explaining' may and often times will result in sealing your conviction, despite how correct you think you are.

The $10,000 that this group fronts may not cover the entire bill, but it is a great start and often times could be enough to not NEED the extra cash for a trial.

The daily cost of this is absolutely trivial at about .23 cents.

 

[mgkdrgn]

, and I hold true to the belief that the truth will always come out. Even if it takes 71 days.

Try nearly 3 years .... that is how long a gentleman served in -prison- here before he was released in what was -clearly- a self defense case. Two booze fueled guys with a broken bottle against a partially disabled doorman (couldn't run). And even =after= the state supreme court vacated the judgment (the cheif justice was rather harsh with the DA, saying clearly that this case should have NEVER gone to trial), he was held for another 30+ days while the state appealed (filing their appeals in the last hour of the last day of their window of opportunity, of course, to stretch it out as far as possible ....)

 

[GEM]

I am impressed with them as I know the folk. They also have an online journal that has interviews with very well versed and intelligent people.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I've been a member for three years. The monthly newsletter and annual videos are very good. It is not insurance. All it is designed to,do is to is get an attorney quickly to you and set up a retainer fee to get the attorney started. It is not o pay your fees. It is spelled out on theirvwebsite on this matter.