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Armed Homeowner Killed

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hillbilly, Jul 15, 2003.

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  1. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    Here's the opening of the story as it appears in the Fort Smith, AR, daily newspaper



    And here is the link to the actual story.

    http://www.swtimes.com/archive/2003/July/15/news/Burglary.html


    Sounds like homeowner was well armed, but didn't have much of a plan other than walking through his own house at night with a rifle. Assailant had a .22 revolver.

    Just a harsh reminder that merely having a loaded gun does not make you actually armed.

    hillbilly
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2010
  2. Nathaniel Firethorn

    Nathaniel Firethorn Member

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    Clearing a house alone and untrained. Most untactical.
    Well said.

    - pdmoderator
     
  3. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Should have had a good guard dog. If nothing else, it's something for the goblin to shoot at while you take aim.
     
  4. charleym3

    charleym3 Member

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    I cleared my house one night. My spouse blocking at the stairs to the sleeping quarters. I was alone. Turned out that the cat set off the alarm.
    No I'm not trained, but I do play IDPA.
    A very sad situation. It also sounds like the home owner lacked the resolve to use the gun in his hands.
     
  5. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    :(

    Lesson learned: it does not matter if you "hate crime." Having a gun does not make you Batman or a one man SWAT team. Do not break cover unless you must. If you go looking for trouble, you just may find it!

    This is very sad. What hillbilly said.
     
  6. pax

    pax Member

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    Folks,

    We don't know if he was trained or not. All we know is

    1) that he was armed, and

    2) that he lost. :(

    That said, one of the first things I learned about tactics is that searching your own house when you think there may be a bad guy in it is known technically, in law enforcement circles, as "Looking for someone to kill you." :uhoh:

    Training is good. Training is necessary. But it is not the cure-all and having good training does not make you bullet proof. The smart thing to do is to get the training, and then get more training. And if you have a situation like this, call the cops and let them do the scary stuff unless you truly have no choice but to deal with it yourself.

    Be smart and play it safe.

    pax

    I use not only all the brains I have, but all I can borrow. -- Woodrow Wilson
     
  7. Nathaniel Firethorn

    Nathaniel Firethorn Member

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    It's a good bet that anyone who was trained to do what he was trying to do wouldn't have done what he did.

    - pdmoderator
     
  8. SADshooter

    SADshooter Member

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    We don't know what happened, or either party's level of training/awareness. What sticks in my mind is the axiom I picked up somewhere--Not every scenario is survivable.
     
  9. pax

    pax Member

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    pdmoderator,

    Sure, but the problem is that human beings do stuff we know better than to do, all the time. It is part of the human condition to think "I shouldn't do that ..." -- and then go ahead and do it anyway. :uhoh:

    You're probably right that he wasn't trained. But we don't have complete data, and probably never will.

    pax

    I dood it. I shouldn't ha' dood it. I dood it again! -- Red Skelton
     
  10. willyjixx

    willyjixx Member

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    my theory on this is renters insurance covers most of the stuff in the house everthing really important is in my room an down the hall. My wife an child . take what you want but dont come through this door or there will be hell to pay. yes im calling the cops an letting the dogs loose but the last thing im doing is "clearing the house" for potential trouble
     
  11. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter member

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    And stupid laws and DA's that prosecute citizens defending themselves go a long way toward making people hesitant to use deadly force... which means they are more likely to get killed by criminals who don't care about laws.
     
  12. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Nevada Law

    Restore the common law where you can kill a man to recover your chattel. No liability but kinda messy cleaning up.
     
  13. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    This story really makes you think. And Im sorry to hear it. :(
     
  14. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Yeah, it make me think ...

    It makes me think: "Shoot first and ask questions later"
     
  15. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    I am not trained to search a house.

    But I do have a ready-made, rehearsed plan for this type of situation.

    1) I awake to hear goblin breaking into my house.

    2) I grab shotgun with flashlight near bed and wake up my wife next to me.

    3) I rack a shell into the shotgun's chamber while shouting "I Have A Shotgun! Go Away!" as wife calls 911 and grabs her own .357 magnum.

    4) We hunker down in the bedroom (only one doorway in or out) behind cover, with the phone on, waiting for the cops to arrive.

    I don't go looking for the guy unless I smell him setting fire to the house, or hear him raping someone he's dragged into my house with him, or something equally heinous.

    If he's just breaking stuff, or trying to steal property, I let him, and wait on the cavalry.

    If he comes to the bedroom doorway, BOOM!

    hillbilly
     
  16. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Yeah, that's all fine if it's just two of you ...
     
  17. willyjixx

    willyjixx Member

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    4v50 Gary :

    i am not doubting you but what NRS is that? i want to know to cover my but legally. i too am a Nevadan



    hillbilly im with you!

    Tallpine you have a Very Valid Point! my child is down the hall an as much as i would love to i can not predict or decide where the goblin is going to B & E.

    very scary situation.
     
  18. Doug444

    Doug444 Member

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    “We don’t know if (Allen) knew there was anybody home or not ... (but) we really believe that when he went into Mr. Ruby’s room, he didn’t expect him to have a gun,†Limbird said.


    Ruby’s gun was found near his body. There were nine cartridges in the magazine and one in the chamber, which is all the gun will hold, apparently indicating that Ruby did not fire the weapon, Limbird said.


    Ruby’s wife found her husband lying wounded in his bedroom after hearing noises shortly after 1 a.m. Saturday.

    Sounds like he was NOT clearing his home, but when the BG encountered him the BG was quick on the trigger. Another reason NOT to give warnings.

    My home, at night, without my permission - Bang!

    Sad.
     
  19. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I get to choose my nightly backup

    Could be Wernner von den Wannaer Hohen, 20 times Schutzhund III
    Could be Klico von Karthago, the big guy
    Could be Cohen von Adler Stein, my best bud
    Could be Volan von der Daelenberghütte, though he's hyper

    But I prefer Vashon von der Maineiche or Xora von der Daelenberghütt, smaller females who have tasted manflesh and will not hestitate to kill first and ask questions later.

    It's not the big beefy male in front of you have to worry about, so much as the silent female leaping in behind you :D
     
  20. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    the saddest part is,,,

    a little yappy high strung yorky might have been enough to prevent the break-in from ever happening at all

    sorry to hear one of the good guys has fallen,,,

    :mad:
     
  21. Pain

    Pain Member

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    I agree

    Serveral of my Gung Ho friends have had this discussion.... They are " If I hear them In my house I'm going after them and I ah Gonna Shootem"..... My response is this. Unless you hear converstion, You never know how many guys are out there and you, don't know where they are. Tactically you are at a disadvantage. Most of my Valubles (things that cannot be replaced) are in the Room where I sleep. If they want them then they had better be prepared to get past a 72lb Blue Heeler (one that can take kicks from a 1ton Bull and keep heeling), and if they make it past him Then they better be prepared to fight it out with me and my winchester 120 and the wife with a .45. Of which we both now have the tactical advantage. My point is this: There is nothing in my house I can't replace. In Texas they'de have to be pretty stupid to break in any house at night, so they are either Very Brave or plain nuts. Confronting either in a " Just Awoke" state is not something I wanna Do. I can't defend my wife if Im dead in the Livingroom because I Had a "Brass Pair", and wanted to come out shooting. My friends ont the other hand I fear will find out differently
     
  22. Zedicus

    Zedicus Member

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    It is allways a sad thing to hear when a person is Killed by a Criminal.

    but Like the T-Shirt says, "Gun Control is being able to Hit your Target!"
     
  23. WAGCEVP

    WAGCEVP Member

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    chit happens !:uhoh:
     
  24. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    The first two things that come to my mind, are a general sense of sorrow and loss for a fellow gun owner. There is also the realization, that it takes a lot more than mere gun ownership, to enable a fellow to go in after someone. There is a diminishing of common sense, it seems, when adrenelin starts pumping. Tunnel vision, shortness of breath, and forgetting everything you ever learned just seem to happen when a fellow is confronted for the first time, with life or death.

    Prudence for the untrained, and unskilled, dictates that if you life is not in IMMEDIATE danger, just get the heck out of there.
     
  25. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I'll chip a dollar into the rope fund.
     
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