Armed Sentries and awareness

[Navy joe]

These are just some of my observations from standing a fair amount of armed watches and interacting with other armed sentries while on stateside military installations.

Security isn't, but I suspect most of us are aware of that. Anyone who thinks the guard at the gate or the cop on the corner is keeping them safe is severely deluded. Both may provide a deterrent but security is only obtained by the vigilance of everyone in an area.

Assumption is the mother of all_______. Stateside a lot of assumptions are made such as nothing bad will happen on my watch. I am sure no one guarding a gate in Iraq thinks that, but here we are safe and sound on U.S. soil right? No need to have much practice with my sidearm, maintain constant awareness, or analyze possible threats and where they could come from. 9999 out of 10000 times nothing will happen but someone is on watch when it does happen. No one thought multiple airliners would be deliberately crashed into buildings when they armed up at 8:00 am on 9/11/2001, but it happened.

Familiarity breeds contempt. "Oh, that contractor is here everyday, no need to watch him closely, look for bulges under his clothing, or check his tool bag." "That boat goes by fishing everyday." Again, assume nothing. Case in point, last night I brought my mini-DVD player onboard my ship. I walked 1/2 mile across base past 3 bike cops, past an armed pier sentry that vaguely knows me, and past an armed quarterdeck watch that knows me. "That guy works here, he's cool." Righhhhttt! I'll tell you why not right. My DVD player happens to perfectly fit with all ancillary cables into a Glock 34 tupperware. It is a nice padded hard case. It also says Glock all over it. Never challenged, never even noticed, right in my hand. Same case has been in my truck for 6 months, through the armed front gate everyday. No biggie there, in 2002 I took a 24ft. Ryder truck on base to move Navy gear and because I had an ID card(good guy) I had to practically beg them to look in the back, the gate was happy to just wave me through. How much gets through on your watch?

 

[Davo]

Ah the illusion of saftey...it helps soccer moms sleep better at night.

 

[748]

It helps liberals sleep at night too.

 

[Davo]

It helps liberals sleep at night too

But I repeat myself...

 

[NavyLCDR]

Right after 9/11 I was at San Diego for something. There was a HUMVEE parked at each end of the Coronado bridge. They just watched the traffic go by, no matter what it was - rental trucks, etc. I had to wonder what in the heck did that accomplish?

 

[Devonai]

I have been on both sides of the spectrum in the military (state-side). I've worked gates that were ID-check-only, two-man teams, and I've worked gates where we had four guys.

In the case of the latter, everyone got stopped (no wave-throughs), the interior of the car was always eyeballed, and the undercarriage was always inspected with the mirror device. It didn't matter if the driver was a full-bird colonel or a gaggle of privates. ID was checked for every passenger as well. If something wasn't right, the vehicle would be sequestered for a full search. Everything got torn out that wasn't bolted down or glued into place.

Sometimes the directive would come down to search a minimum of every fourth vehicle regardless of who was driving. Contractors learned to hate us because we would hold them up for over an hour at times. At Camp Edwards the line would stretch back for miles sometimes.

That being said, there was only so much that this could accomplish. The interior of an electrical contractor's van looks like nothing but IEDs. It would have been very difficult to spot a real device. Also, one of the posts I worked used county jail inmates to clean the facility every day, bussed in by sheriff's deputies in a 15-PAX van. We hated this arrangement and complained about it all the time. We literally had no idea who these inmates were or to whom their allegiences lay. They may not have been a threat by themselves but they could have very easily relayed information to someone dangerous.

The underlying problem that I see is that every base cherry-picks what they want out of the Force Protection Condition (FPCON) requirements, and very few implement all of them. There are four levels, Alpha through Delta, with Alpha being the least restrictive. We used to joke about being at "FPCON Alpha Negative" when the powers-that-be would instruct us to disregard some of Alpha's requirements. Also, we never went to FPCON Bravo even though this was only two years after 9/11/01.

I have since moved on to an Infantry unit so these issues are no longer my problem. However, I still have to hold my tongue when I go through a gate manned by unarmed civilian security guards. Why some facilities have fully-armed MPs and some do not is a complete mystery to me. I have crunched the numbers and the National Guard is really not saving any money by hiring private security as opposed to a bunch of PFCs and an E5 NCOIC. The only excuse is that most of the state's MP units are in Iraq right now. Personally I think they should start grabbing people for Active Duty Special Work (ADSW) assignments as there should never be any compromise in base security.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Sentries serve 4 functions, in sequence, none of which is "prevention".

The first is detection that something bad is happening.

The second is communication of that fact to someone/thing that can do something about it.

The third is immediate reaction to the fact, if feasible.

The fourth is logistical: by prepositioning forces closer to where they might be used, reaction time is reduced.

Immediate reaction isn't always useful. The bridge blows up, or the bomb goes off, and the sentry doesn't have much to beyond call for backup.

The sentry is useful in some situations. For example, as an outer ring of defense around a "no go" area. Detection and communication of a penetrating force enables the rallying of a counterforce to prevent further incursion.

In terms of monitoring a stream of traffic, they're near useless. People have been sneaking in through the city gates with swords under their cloaks for as long as there have been city gates, swords, and cloaks.

 

[JCaraker]

I've noticed over the last few years that the focus has been on making security personnel more visible while also making the procedures more convenient for clients and patrons. Pretty much defeats the purpose in my eyes. All show and no go. Very few of the measures and order changes at places I've worked have been to enhance the defensive posture of the location and many have been to grant special dispensation to various individuals who feel they are exempt or that precautions do not apply to them or to expedite entry and exit for personnel. I've experienced supervisors informally counseling guards, myself included, for being too thorough at searches(while still following procedure) because "You are holding up traffic, just glance and go on." About the only place I've worked was an Air Force base where the civilian chief of guards said he could explain a long line at the gate much easier than any drunk, bomber, or attacker we let through. He stood by that for as long as I was there, and to my knowledge still does.

 

[Navy joe]

Geek, that is a pretty good synopsis of sentry responsiblities, by "prevention" I was aiming at the deterrent effect that pre-placed armed personnel can have.

I don't think this applies just to military sentries either, the goal of sticking an armed cop out in public is similar in some ways.

I also do not think that we will ever stop the "sword through the city gate" problem, even strip searches in prison don't get all the weapons, I just wonder about the general lack of SA that many armed professionals exhibit mainly because we are safe here on home soil. Much like the soldier in Baghdad, I don't think you can get an LA SWAT cop to think complacent thoughts like that, but I am sure much of small town policing is victim to "nothing ever happens here." It's a mundane job, still has to be done as effectively as possible.


"Show and go" is a great description of our current security. Before some lousy bastard stole it I had a Spyderco Native that I kept the score etched on it, it had been through 7 metal detectors with me, including flying to Europe, all post 9/11. As armed citizens when we are not on post as sentries I think we should remember that whoever wants something past security bad enough is going to get it.

 

[ceetee]

Any security system should be composed of layers. The outermost, most visible layer hsould be there mostly to deter by it's presence. It should be backed up by less visible layers organized for quick response, and that should be backed up by other layers that are not normally visible at all. It doesn't matter if it's personal security, military security, department store security, casino security... I was on a cruise once where a couple of adjoining cabins down the hall from mine housed undercover cruise line security officers. The only way I found out who they were was by accidentally overhearing some shop talk across an open balcony late one night.

 

[El Barto]

I was stationed at Norfolk on submarines, and I agree that security was not what you would expect. The first time I was stationed there, I rarely had the correct stickers for my car or I used to go to the pass and ID office to get a day pass. I would use a day pass for a week or more (creative forgeries). I never had any trouble getting one.

For a while they even had an "open base" policy. There were no gate guards at all during the daylight hours.

As for the pier security, in the late 90's, the sentires were armed with unloaded pistols and most people knew it. One night some guy walked up to a couple of guards, pointed his loaded pistol in their face and relieved them of thier holstered weapons.

After that, the base installed "panic buttons" in the guard shacks and armed the sentries with night sticks. I don't know how the sitation is now.

 

[Navy joe]

Norfolk security is a lot better now than then, I know, I was standing a gate watch in front of 2 CVNs during the open base days the night the Africa embassies got bombed. Zero security on a base all because some admiral thought the taxpayers should see what they were paying for. I won't go into layers of security detail except to say it's a lot better and the sidearms aren't unloaded.

This isn't really directed at one naval base, I see the same things anywhere I go, especially the airport.

Another anecdote from a post 9/11 world to demonstrate how a person that looks the part can easily slip layers of security. I went downtown in a neighboring city to pay a traffic ticket. The courthouse had metal detectors and I was clean. Metal detector went off bigger than heck, I stepped through, said "it's my boots", the guard waves the wand over my steel toes and lets me go. How many assumptions did he make to not correctly wand me? I could have been carrying an SMG under my loose shirt for all the security he provided.

 

[atk]

I've always rather thought that the purpose of the security personnel is to die in the loudest manner possible, so that the people inside will know that something's up. If the guard survives, then it's gravy.

 

[NMshooter]

I thought it was funny when I saw the guard at the ECP for a live Patriot site in Saudi empty handed with his M-16A2 laying on the sandbags next to him with an empty magazine well...

That sure changed in a hurry after the bombing, though.

It is a bit hard to convince folks, even uniform wearing folks, to take security seriously until after something happens.

Maybe the vast majority of military personnel being unarmed and spending little time training or even discussing subjects such as firearms or combat has something to do with it...

I will never forget my fellow airmen who had seriously thought they were "noncombatants".

 

[trueblue1776]

These are just some of my observations from standing a fair amount of armed watches:

1. Man I need to get another job.
2. I really should stop putting finger quotes around people's ranks when I am talking to them.
3. Maybe if I was nicer I wouldn't get put on duty so much.
4. How come there are no chicks standing duty?
5. I hate drunk watch, but I like watch drunk.

Just kidding, but I did just sign my discharge papers yesterday, oh happy happy day. Boooooo ya

 

[thexrayboy]

When it comes to sentries and security we as a people get the security we are willing to pay for....and the security we are willing to tolerate.

It looks good to post a Hummer at each end of the Coronado bridge or the Golden Gate bridge. Makes us feel like we are getting our moneys worth out of the military. Its all show though. Any level of security in the civilian world that has a reasonable chance at being effective (not 100% effective, just reasonably so) will be so much of an inconvenience to business and pleasure that "we the people" will not tolerate it for any length of time. That is the crux of security. It directly affects and limits convenience.

 

[larry_minn]

Heck if sentries are given live ammo IMO its a improvement. (I can understand if rds not chambered for average person.)
The stuff I have seen on bases/airports/etc. More then once I have had access to guards M-16 (on counter) while they are hammering on computer trying to find info)
I also took a 24' U-haul onto a number of bases and only once was asked to open rear door. quick look/close it.
Prior to 9/11 I would go on bases with my scuba diving card as base ID. As said your actions matter as much as your ID. (Ok they got better with that)
That said Guard duty stinks. Its boring,tiring,mind numbing and nothing ever happens......... Till it does and if it does you will be so far behind the curve odds are you won't make it.