historynut
Member
Anyone had any experience with Armi San Marcos BP revolvers? Are they well made, reliable, etc? Looking at a late 80s or early 90s revolver and am unfamiliar with this manufacturer.
Armi San Marcos BP revolvers?
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I am not sure who made my old 1858, though I used to think it was ASM. Looks nice, and I like it since I've had it since I was a teenager, but all the internal metal in it is soft, the springs don't work any more, the trigger cuts my finger when I shoot it. It's going to become a wallhanger, now that I have a newer Uberti to replace it (and my wife for some reason actually WANTS more guns on the living room wall -- I won't argue).
Personally, I'd stay away unless I had a really good reason to buy the thing or got some really good feedback here.
There was some lousy stuff out of Italy in the past. There was also some good stuff. Caveat emptor.
What kind of revolver?
Personally, I'd stay away unless I had a really good reason to buy the thing or got some really good feedback here.
There was some lousy stuff out of Italy in the past. There was also some good stuff. Caveat emptor.
What kind of revolver?
historynut
Member
Thanks ArmedBear. It's a 1860 Army (steel frame) sold by CVA in the late 80s or 90s. A buddy is selling it and it looks and feels pretty good. He's not much of a shooter, he's a CW reenactor, so his needs are different from mine. He's taken care of it and cleaned it the right way so it's in good shape for it's age and it's usage. I'm looking at it as an inexpensive way to add a .44 to my kit.
I have an old CVA single shot pistol I built from a kit. It's not bad, functionally, but it's not up to the standards of the other guns of that era, either in terms of design features or quality. I also have old T/C's and an old Palmetto Armory, and they're just plain nicer guns in many ways.
CVA was a purveyor of some of the cheapest blackpowder guns. I bought them at some predecessor of the big box store, Best Company, I think. I do remember passing on their revolvers "back in the day." I think they came in blister packs, or some of them did.
Given that the 1860 or the superior 1858 Remington made by the vastly superior Uberti are available for around 250 bucks brand new, it'd better be pretty damned cheap. Parts are available from Dixie, though off-brand parts are harder to get. And they're not free, either. I'd rather just get a nice new gun (and that's what I did, after trying to get parts to fit my old 1858).
A source:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,334.htm
And of course, there's Dixie or Cabela's. Word is the Piettas are pretty good now, too. Cabela's 1860s are $210 and 1858s are $200.
Again, I have my prejudices, so take them with a grain of salt. However, I'm also on here occasionally, responding to people who think that all Italian replicas are junk. They're not. However, some are, and especially in years past, many were.
CVA was a purveyor of some of the cheapest blackpowder guns. I bought them at some predecessor of the big box store, Best Company, I think. I do remember passing on their revolvers "back in the day." I think they came in blister packs, or some of them did.
Given that the 1860 or the superior 1858 Remington made by the vastly superior Uberti are available for around 250 bucks brand new, it'd better be pretty damned cheap. Parts are available from Dixie, though off-brand parts are harder to get. And they're not free, either. I'd rather just get a nice new gun (and that's what I did, after trying to get parts to fit my old 1858).
A source:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,334.htm
And of course, there's Dixie or Cabela's. Word is the Piettas are pretty good now, too. Cabela's 1860s are $210 and 1858s are $200.
Again, I have my prejudices, so take them with a grain of salt. However, I'm also on here occasionally, responding to people who think that all Italian replicas are junk. They're not. However, some are, and especially in years past, many were.
historynut
Member
Good points ArmedBear. I'm a '61 Signature Series shooter at present so I too am a fan of Uberti. I think the price on the CVA would be a "buddy deal".
0007
Member
SO would two ASM Walker-Dragoons for $130 be a good deal? Seller admits they have problems.
Depends what you want to do with them.
I'm sure they'd look fine on the wall.
Contact Dixie to see if you can get parts. See how much the parts cost. Note that Walkers have problems with the lever springing open, even if the springs DO work, which those probably aren't worth crap.
If the guns are sound, like they're timed right, the cylinders are drilled right, etc., etc., you can probably build them into something decent, if you can get the parts and the parts are good quality. You might have to caseharden things yourself. Do you have a good workshop?
They'd be a project, that's for sure. You could probably shoot them, if it's worth the hassle to you. Tempting, considering the price of a replica Walker these days. Of course the new ones are worth a lot more...
Tempting as in, "Hey Eve! This is a really good apple! Try it!"
I'm sure they'd look fine on the wall.
Contact Dixie to see if you can get parts. See how much the parts cost. Note that Walkers have problems with the lever springing open, even if the springs DO work, which those probably aren't worth crap.
If the guns are sound, like they're timed right, the cylinders are drilled right, etc., etc., you can probably build them into something decent, if you can get the parts and the parts are good quality. You might have to caseharden things yourself. Do you have a good workshop?
They'd be a project, that's for sure. You could probably shoot them, if it's worth the hassle to you. Tempting, considering the price of a replica Walker these days. Of course the new ones are worth a lot more...
Tempting as in, "Hey Eve! This is a really good apple! Try it!"
Blasterbear
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ASM
I don't own any ASM guns but a shooting buddy is a retired Coast Guard Gunner's Mate Master Chief and the gun smith where I buy my stuff, once said that the ASM products were good. I am a retired navy EOD tech so I am particular who I take advice from. I'll take his any day.
I don't own any ASM guns but a shooting buddy is a retired Coast Guard Gunner's Mate Master Chief and the gun smith where I buy my stuff, once said that the ASM products were good. I am a retired navy EOD tech so I am particular who I take advice from. I'll take his any day.
DrLaw
Member
Junk, junk, junk ,junk, junk, junk and junk.
Oh, did I mention they were junk?
Just my unbiased opinion from having a .36 Navy piece of ASM junk.
The Doc is out now.
Oh, did I mention they were junk?
Just my unbiased opinion from having a .36 Navy piece of ASM junk.
The Doc is out now.
Snaggletooth
Member
0007, You can get ASM parts fromDeer Creek Products. When I order I have products or parts in 2 days. 765-525-6181. Nice people to deal with.
Tommygunn
Member
Armi San Marco is out of business. If they had made good quality stuff it's likely they would still be around.
My first BP revolver was an ASM Remington 1858. It was accurate enough, but the back of the cylinder was not rounded like Ubertis are. Even Piettas are better. The gun shot OKAY, but the bolt broke and had to be replaced rather quickly.
My second was an ASM Colt 1860 Army. There were no safety pins, the machining work around the plunger on the barrel was quite crude, and the grip was the size of the 1851 Colt -- which was accurate for early 1860's but at the time I was unaware of that.
Having said that, I once saw a Colt 1861 Navy in a gunstore which was very, very nicely made, with safety pins, and really nice barrel work, and upon close examination I was surprised to see it was marked A.S.M. on the barrel. I surmised it was an early one and the later ones I saw were the result of ASM cutting corners.
I would stick with Pietta and Uberti if I had a choice.
My first BP revolver was an ASM Remington 1858. It was accurate enough, but the back of the cylinder was not rounded like Ubertis are. Even Piettas are better. The gun shot OKAY, but the bolt broke and had to be replaced rather quickly.
My second was an ASM Colt 1860 Army. There were no safety pins, the machining work around the plunger on the barrel was quite crude, and the grip was the size of the 1851 Colt -- which was accurate for early 1860's but at the time I was unaware of that.
Having said that, I once saw a Colt 1861 Navy in a gunstore which was very, very nicely made, with safety pins, and really nice barrel work, and upon close examination I was surprised to see it was marked A.S.M. on the barrel. I surmised it was an early one and the later ones I saw were the result of ASM cutting corners.
I would stick with Pietta and Uberti if I had a choice.
Old Dragoon
Member
ASM went out of business because Colt threatened to sue them! then they were bought out by AWA to make SAA clones, no BP guns.
I never owned one until a few weeks ago I bought one, an 1860 Army and was quite pleased with the fit form and function it is timed right and aligns perfectly and has a decent hammer spring and a nice trigger pull. it is a 1990 gun. My only concern is that the grips appear and feel shrunken away from the grip frame. It is a 4 screw frame and as had a stock mounted at one time or another. Haven't Shot it yet.
I'd buy the Walkers at that price for both...if you don't want them I'll buy them.
I'm sure I can fix them, unless they are was loose, way wobbly or too bad to shoot. What does he say the problems are. One man's problems are another man's Projects.
I never owned one until a few weeks ago I bought one, an 1860 Army and was quite pleased with the fit form and function it is timed right and aligns perfectly and has a decent hammer spring and a nice trigger pull. it is a 1990 gun. My only concern is that the grips appear and feel shrunken away from the grip frame. It is a 4 screw frame and as had a stock mounted at one time or another. Haven't Shot it yet.
I'd buy the Walkers at that price for both...if you don't want them I'll buy them.
I'm sure I can fix them, unless they are was loose, way wobbly or too bad to shoot. What does he say the problems are. One man's problems are another man's Projects.
Local gunsmith had nothing good to say about ASM, when I went looking for parts or casehardening services. Soft metal. I'd be curious to hear about that trigger pull after a few hundred rounds, OD.
Maybe by 1990 they had their Shi'ite together.
Maybe by 1990 they had their Shi'ite together.
Im283
Member
I have a ASM 1851 Navy in .44. I bought it back in about 1982. I don't know for sure how many rounds I have put through it, maybe 350????
I worked fine until about a year ago when I shot it and after cleaning it and re-assembly the hammer will no longer pull back and of course the cylinder does not rotate now either.
I have spent a small fortune trying to get parts for it ( never heard of or tried Deer Creek, they will get called Monday ) Original ASM parts have been impossible for me to find and the parts I have ordered never seem to work. I have massaged it it and worked the new pieces but nothing seems to free up the cylinder to allow the hammer to cock.
All in all I would say it was a fine gun while it worked. It was very accurate out to about 50 yards.
I spoke to a couple of gunsmiths and their opinion was with the age and what I paid, ( about $75 new from Gander Mtn.) that it might be time to retire it.
Of course I am not giving up yet, lol. Gonna try Deer Creek
I worked fine until about a year ago when I shot it and after cleaning it and re-assembly the hammer will no longer pull back and of course the cylinder does not rotate now either.
I have spent a small fortune trying to get parts for it ( never heard of or tried Deer Creek, they will get called Monday
) Original ASM parts have been impossible for me to find and the parts I have ordered never seem to work. I have massaged it it and worked the new pieces but nothing seems to free up the cylinder to allow the hammer to cock.All in all I would say it was a fine gun while it worked. It was very accurate out to about 50 yards.
I spoke to a couple of gunsmiths and their opinion was with the age and what I paid, ( about $75 new from Gander Mtn.) that it might be time to retire it.
Of course I am not giving up yet, lol. Gonna try Deer Creek
I have one ASM revolver, an 1851 colt .44 brass frame. It shoots well but the trigger wasn't hardened and became a hair trigger in fairly short order. I did get a replacement trigger from the Gunworks. I also had to replace the main spring because it became too weak to pop caps. The screws heads are soft and bunged up easily and will need to be replaced also. They were definitly low end revolvers that shoot pretty well and I feel lucky mine hasn't had more problems. I hope to get some more use out of it but if I were to do it again I'd avoid the ASM guns unless I found one real cheap. Having said that I have heard of fellas having good luck with theirs. I guess its a crap shoot. Although ASM being out of business and parts getting harder to find would further discourage me from buying one.
Don
Don
gpr
Member
i got an 1858 remmie kit....a LOT of fit and finish....i think the kits have less quality, i saw a new gun at outdoor world....much nicer than mine...example..my grip blanks had to be filled in before they could fitted...the cylinder had one bore that got hit with a counter sink...deer creek sent me a new one...the timing was then off, they sent me a hand/spring....i paid $145...i could have a factory one for $175.....just not the same as when you do it yourself.....gpr
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