Army drops bayonet training

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Patriotme

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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EF3B00&show_article=1

Doesn't seem like a great idea to me. The bayonet is no longer widely used but sooner or later it will be used by some unit in an engagement. At least basic training would help. Anyone that thinks bayonet training, and pounding away at a dummy, with a bayonet and rifle is not a workout has never done it.
I"m reminded when we took machineguns off of our fighters during Vietnam because the military thought they were unnecessary. The pilots wanted them back and all of the new fighters come with them today.
 
Doesn't sound like a great idea to me either. Today's battlefields are usually urban, up close and face to face. It seems the the bayonet would be a very useful tool in these situations.
gesshots

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson
 
Sadly the Army has been moving away from 'real Soldier skills' in favor of piling on administrative and computer duties. The BS I deal with every day that chews up entire days and weeks and months keeps me (and most others) from the fighting and survival skills that most Soldiers really lack.

It is truely a massive Government entity with a myriad of incredibly complex web of rules, policies, regulations, and other complicated and non-intuitive junk - so much so that most Soldiers get WAY too little practice on things like leadership, land navigation, weapons, survival skills, hand-to-hand combat, languages, - things you would think Soldiers would need.

Alas... nearly everyone in the system just accepts it because that's what's expected.
 
I graduated OSUT BCT/AIT in June of 1993 from Ft. Sill, OK. Bayonet training consisted of attacking a wooden man holding a PVC pipe that pivoted. Hand to hand combat consisted of hip throws, sand drills, and a lttle fun time where we got to beat on each other with pugil sticks. They promised us a chance at the rappelling tower, but that never materialized. They could've dropped it, and I wouldn't have missed it :(
 
Wow I thought combat arms troops were taught more skills than ever before in todays army. Seems like my son spent a lot of time in the field when they were back in the states.
I don't think they drilled with bayonets but do a lot of combatives.
 
Here is the story I read, http://www.military.com/news/article/army-drops-bayonets-in-training-revamp.html?col=1186032325324 It sounds like it is endorsed by combat veteran NCO's who are seeking to best train their soldiers.
If they are focusing on the training that is the most effective then I don't see a down side.
The core muscle training is the real deal, my youngest son is a state champ wrestler and they train a great deal on the core strength as well as cardio. It develops very strong and durable young men.
 
I think it is about time. Realistically, bayonets haven't been used much since Napoleon's time.

It is more important to teach soldiers how to fight in modern combat, CQB is not the same as sticking someone with a bayonet attached to the end of your service weapon.

In addition, it never made sense to me how soldiers are trained in HTH wearing just fatigues or shorts & T-shirt. Military servicemen need to know how to fight while fully encumbered with their gear.
 
The final fight in the book House to House is a vivid view of the modern hand to hand battle in today's wars. The author ends up using his helmet when he has no weapon left.
 
I would not be surprised if the Army dropped bayonet training - they're desperate enough to ask me to join up, two recruiters so far. Last time I wore a military uniform was 1989...
 
Some questions that come to my mind...

Does anybody know if we have inflicted any casualties on enemy combatants in Iraq or Afghanistan using a bayonet?

How about the physiological impact of crowd control with a fixed bayonet?
 
How about the physiological impact of crowd control with a fixed bayonet?
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"Crowd control" shouldn't be a duty for military personnel.
 
From my time long ago in the Corps - training was more than sticking a dummy - there were exercises on slashing, butt strokes, parying (sp?) and more - some of which would seem to have a place in CQB today - just my opinion.
 
There is at least one documented case of US Marines fixing bayonets during the 2003 Iraq invasion, in An Nasiriyah, IIRC.

Dunno if any Iraqi soldiers were actually killed with bayonets during that fighting though.

So, just like many have prematurely sounded the death knell for 1 v 1 dogfighting in the air combat arena, sometimes in the fog of war it becomes necessary to fall back on the most basic types of armed combat.

Realize that basic training is a course which has only a certain amount of time and effort that can be thrown at each recruit to turn them into a functional soldier. The specific skills taught, and the proficiency level those skills are taught to, are -- and absolutely should be -- continually re-evaluated for their validity and applicability to current conflicts.

Just because it doesn't get taught to everyone in basic doesn't mean that it is *never* taught -- it just means it's not taught in basic. There is always the option to train for it in follow-on training for the troopers who might need it.

If NCOs with boots-on-the-ground in Iraq and Afghanistan are for this change in training, I'm for it.
 
I still remember my afternoons with pugil sticks. Skills that could come in handy.....
 
just suppose that stealth is required such as a night attack, infiltrate enemy position under cover of darkness.
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In that case a dedicated fixed blade knife would be used instead of a bayonet attached to your rifle.

Sad to see the training dropped as it certainly is still an applicable stand off defense at the very least.
 
Brits apparently still using them

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2753975.ece

..."It was bloody fighting, often at the point of a bayonet, that left 29 men dead and almost 100 wounded, more than 20 of them seriously. The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters lost nine men, as did the 1st Battalion the Royal Anglian Regiment... “The enemy was cunning, determined and ruthless. However, every time we closed with the enemy, we beat him - and beat him well.”

In some of the pictures, men of the Grenadier Guards, who saw five colleagues killed in Afghanistan, go out on patrol in Garmsir. They are shown closing with the Taliban with fixed bayonets and mortaring them as they attempt to drive them out of the town

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/6178044/British-officer-wins-two-gallantry-awards-for-fending-off-Taliban-attack-with-bayonet.html A young British officer, Lieutenant James Adamson, who won two gallantry awards while serving in Afghanistan has told how he fended off an enemy attack by bayoneting a Taliban fighter to death.
 
The Army has been on and off with bayonet training for years.

It's actually only taught as an aggression exercise. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

J
 
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