ARs in the Desert

[DeadCalm]

Hello all. It's been a long time. My work keeps me away from my favorite site--this one--mostly. Forgive me if this has been covered and if it has, maybe you can direct me to the appropriate thread. My nephew's best friend is posted over in sand country--Iraq. The friend returned home for a short visit and in a discussion he mentioned that the M16/M4 was still a piece of . . . something, when it came to reliability and consistenet performance. The sand just jams them up horribly. He uses the M16 turbocharged version with the double drum mag, I forget its model number, and says that it works fine. Anyone here know for sure how our rifles are doing over there? Armorers, vets, anyone? I thought our new powders, loadings, and tweaks of the entire firing system had provided some major fixes and made the weapons virtually insensitive to such elements. Again, if this has been covered please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

deadcalm

 

[Joejojoba111]

Since it's a self-cleaning rifle... J/K

I believe I read that one actually uses Less oil, to get best reliability, in that climate.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

the regular guns are running bad but the beta c mag equipt rifles are fine?

sounds like a tall tale

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Beta-C mags are notorious for failing in normal range use here. I'd bet money that it isn't the rifle that is the problem.

 

[2ndChapterofActs]

We have a pretty hot one goin on over at M16/AK bit full of assersions and all kinds of fun fingerpointing. howerver some really cool things have been said ya may wanna check it out.

 

[jefnvk]

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144022

4 pages of heated emotion and my-rifle-is-better-than-your-rifle goodness. Plus some actual content.

 

[Rob96]

Hmmmmm? My brother is overin the sandbox,and relates that the M4 is doing very well.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

(Warning: Speculation below!)

I don't think anything short of clogging the firing pin channel with crud(sand or whatever), leaving your springloaded bolt/dust cover open, or not keeping a mag in your rifle would be the only things that would disable an M-16 rifle in Iraq. Other than that, I would simply think the rest of the rifles going down are from basic wear and tear on rifles manufactured who knows when, and maintained by who knows(good or bad armorer ) ...

PS A closed bolt,mag inserted, dust cover closed should get minimal sand in the system and not in the important parts(locking lugs and receiver extension) ! Still only specultation...Waiting for unequivical evidence...

 

[HSMITH]

Talked to a Marine just back from there last weekend. He attributed the M16 problems he saw to some of the weapons being older than he was. Other than a few old beat up clunkers he said they ran just fine. He wanted something with a bit more slap when it hit the bad guys but likes the M16 platform just fine.

 

[g56]

One of the problems they have had is too much lube holds the sand and grit in, regular CLP isn't the best thing in that situation, that's where the dry lubes come in handy.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

One of the problems they have had is too much lube holds the sand and grit in, regular CLP isn't the best thing in that situation, that's where the dry lubes come in handy.

Well, there is some debate on the subject. Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane ran a dust exposure test in the mid-90s using very fine silica flour with banks of eight M16A2s. In their tests, the top performers were all wet lubes. Basically the wet lube did attract more dust than the dry lubes, but it also allowed the dust to migrate to less sensitive areas of the action where it didn't jam up the rifle.

 

[Jeff White]

There is no such thing as a turbocharged M16. We are using M16A2s (USMC, some Army units), M16A4s (Army, some USMC units), M4s (Army and some USMC units) and M4A1s (USSOCOM and some USMC units). They all use the same direct impingment gas system. Some very special units are reportedly playing with a couple of the gas piston uppers.

The Beta C mag is no longer being officially used by anyone. It's failure has been a contributing factor in the loss of some people in Afghanistan and the Army published a Safety of Use Message warning that it wasn't reliable enough to us in combat at least three years ago.

Jeff

 

[Joejojoba111]

Does anyone remember the details of the British problems in Afghanistan? IIRC it was something counter-intuitive, that would have required the users of the rifles to read a paragraph or two on how to maintain it If I recall, they were supposed to use more lubricant in the desert than normal, for that particular rifle.

 

[KriegHund]

The L2a1 or whatever it is?

*Supposed* to be a POS even after being sent to H&K for help...

Anywho, why is the marines using the A2 and tha army using the A4?

 

[Joejojoba111]

I'd guess because the Marines are poor, and the Army has money to Conquer, err Commanche, err waste.