Arsenal AK owners. Cleaning product ???

[Rule3]

Question on cleaning products for Arsenal AK SAM7

So the company "mandates" to use ONLY Breakfree CLP. Any other voids their warranty for finish.
They also claim that their rifles are made to "military" standards and also will nit disclose what type of finish is on their rifles. So a military rifle that can only withstand a specific name brand product?? Is it available in Bulgaria? What happens if a mil spec rifle gets gas or diesel fluid on it??. Will it disintegrate? So for a $1000 rifle one needs to baby it and only use BreakFree CLP??

Seems to be some cheap paint, maybe over a parkerized finish??

I cleaned the bolt with Hoppes #9 and it literally dissolved the finish like it was ink No big deal I repainted it with Brownells paint

CLP is a fine product and I do use it, but do not think it is the best for removing the filthy powder and carbon from Wolff ammo. I have used it for many years on my firearms and have used many other solvents on handguns, rifles, military (blued, parkerized, stainless, polycoated etc) and polymer and have no issues with those cleaners/solvents. I prefer to get all the crude off and then finish up with CLP

Rant over.

The Question:

Has anyone found a product (cleaner/solvent) other than CLP that does not destroy the finish??

 

[ny32182]

You probably should clarify whether you are talking about a Saiga conversion, or milled US receiver, etc

I have the former; I don't shoot it much, but have cleaned it with regular hoppes #9 and didn't notice any ill effects.

But it is an AK... I mean... how pretty is it supposed to be?

 

[DMK]

They are probably concerned with the use of Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber or Brake Parts cleaner.

I used the latter to remove all the factory paint finish on my Saigas. It just rinsed right off with a good flooding of the stuff.

 

[Rule3]

You probably should clarify whether you are talking about a Saiga conversion, or milled US receiver, etc

I have the former; I don't shoot it much, but have cleaned it with regular hoppes #9 and didn't notice any ill effects.

But it is an AK... I mean... how pretty is it supposed to be?

It is one of their NEW ones, with milled receiver,polymer furniture Any gun cleaner/solvent should not remove a finish IMHO

I have older "original" AKs, SKS etc and not hurts those.

 

[ny32182]

The Saiga conversions are still new, and finished to what I assume is Russian milspec. To me at least, they look painted at least on the outside, and probably some cleaners might rub off some paint if that is what it is.

The All-US-made milled receiver Arsenals I've seen did not look painted; they appeared (at least years ago last I held one) to be parkerized, or similar to whatever is on AR, inside and out. (Probably a more durable outer finish if I had to guess, but, I'm not a finish expert).

 

[Rule3]

Did a "test" on the recoil spring rod today. Plain old RUBBING ALCOHOL. Dissolves the finish like liquid ink pouring off? Stripped it down to bare metal! This was not soaked, but on a small white patch!! Pathetic for a $1200 rifle!!. I wrote to KVAR and Arsenal but I doubt much will happen. Guess I will eventually just CeraCoat the damn thing.

Using alcohol is paint houses is a test for latex paint!!

 

[GBExpat]

Rule3, did you know about this bizarre solvent prohibition prior to buying the rifle or is this something that was dropped on you after the purchase?

 

[Coyote3855]

There are a couple of AK dedicated forums where this issue has been discussed at length for some time. As GBExpat suggests, these days you need to do your research before you make a selection and hand over the cash. But I agree with your premise that a $1000 rifle should stand up to cleaning products in common use.

 

[Rule3]

Rule3, did you know about this bizarre solvent prohibition prior to buying the rifle or is this something that was dropped on you after the purchase?

Heck no I was not aware. It is on the last page of the "manual" under cleaning. I actually did look at the manual but didn't think I needed to "learn" how to clean a freaking AK?? Then the manual says that "the gas piston should be "NOT be applied with CLP" Instead just clean and dry" Well what the hell do you clean it with if CLP is the only cleaner allowed??

Seems the only gun brand that I know of, an Arsenal AK from Bulgaria, is so sensitive that only one cleaning product in the World is safe for it.??
As I said. CLP is a great product, I use it all the time but I do not like to "clean" a gun with a "oil" and then oil it again.

Didn't just fall off the Vodka truck. I used to work in a gun shop. The owner built AKs!

Heck I think I will try grain alcohol (Vodka) on it,

Happy Thanksgiving

 

[DMK]

That sounds exactly like the Saiga finish. Underneath that weak paint is some kind of phosphate or parkerizing. That's the way the Russians did it.

When you refinish, you have to get all of that paint off first. Mine also looked just like black ink rinsing off.

Did a "test" on the recoil spring rod today. Plain old RUBBING ALCOHOL. Dissolves the finish like liquid ink pouring off? Stripped it down to bare metal! This was not soaked, but on a small white patch!! Pathetic for a $1200 rifle!!. I wrote to KVAR and Arsenal but I doubt much will happen. Guess I will eventually just CeraCoat the damn thing.

Using alcohol is paint houses is a test for latex paint!!

 

[Rule3]

That sounds exactly like the Saiga finish. Underneath that weak paint is some kind of phosphate or parkerizing. That's the way the Russians did it.

When you refinish, you have to get all of that paint off first. Mine also looked just like black ink rinsing off.

Thanks. I have read threads on the finish blistering from heat (mag dumps) Heck a High Point or a Kel Tec have better finish than these things!

 

[DMK]

Then the manual says that "the gas piston should be "NOT be applied with CLP" Instead just clean and dry" Well what the hell do you clean it with if CLP is the only cleaner allowed??

Your gas piston should be hard chromed. You can clean it with anything you want. Just wipe it dry. You don't want a bunch of oil coking up in there.

Just get all that Russian paint off and then you don't have to worry about any of that nonsense. After I Gunkoted mine, I punch the bore with Hoppe's #9, blast everything with brake parts cleaner, then lube it with Break Free Collector.

 

[Rule3]

Your gas piston should be hard chromed. You can clean it with anything you want. Just wipe it dry. You don't want a bunch of oil coking up in there.

Just get all that Russian paint off and then you don't have to worry about any of that nonsense. After I Gunkoted mine, I punch the bore with Hoppe's #9, blast everything with brake parts cleaner, then lube it with Break Free Collector.

Yes, the piston is chromed as is the inside barrel.

Only plus side is the gun is very accurate (for an AK) and the trigger is pretty nice.

I will re paint it eventually but still need to get over the fact that it is brand new, and going through this nonsense! The outside finish is OK for now,
Only issue I have with the good coatings is I have no way to "bake on the finish" So need to use a air cure paint. CeraCoat gas some but then blasting and need a air brush and yada yada..

Heck, High Temp Engine Paint is better than this!

 

[GBExpat]

Heck no I was not aware. It is on the last page of the "manual" under cleaning. I actually did look at the manual but didn't think I needed to "learn" how to clean a freaking AK?? ...

As I suspected, with what I have learned about you by reading many of your posts here.

Quite frankly, if I were the one with the expensive rifle that was advertised, sold & delivered with such a horrible secret, I would be ... um, "exceptionally dissatisfied" ... and contacting the Dealer/MFR so that they could setup a shipping label for its return as well as a full refund of all monies outlaid in its acquisition.

If I decided to keep it, I would, at the very least, contact the Dealer/MFR and let them know of my severe displeasure with this circumstance and what I was having to do to correct their poor performance & behavior.

<chuckle> I find myself getting a bit spun-up over this and I am not the one who spent ~$1200 for a rifle "finished" with tempera paint.

 

[Rule3]

As I suspected, with what I have learned about you by reading many of your posts here.

Quite frankly, if I were the one with the expensive rifle that was advertised, sold & delivered with such a horrible secret, I would be ... um, "exceptionally dissatisfied" ... and contacting the Dealer/MFR so that they could setup a shipping label for its return as well as a full refund of all monies outlaid in its acquisition.

If I decided to keep it, I would, at the very least, contact the Dealer/MFR and let them know of my severe displeasure with this circumstance and what I was having to do to correct their poor performance & behavior.

<chuckle> I find myself getting a bit spun-up over this and I am not the one who spent ~$1200 for a rifle "finished" with tempera paint.

Believe me. I have not been this ticked off over a gun purchase in a long time. I have written to KVAR and ARSENAL.. I have paid a lot of money for expensive guns that just did not work. The factory has always fixed them no issues. Never have I had a firearm that had this "little" for so much money!??

Could have purchased a top of the line Browning, SW, Ruger,Colt, endless AR's etc etc for less and got more!

Supposed I should have taken pictures and the cleaning patches but I am to miffed to pull the gun out of the safe.

Arsenal promotes how wonderful their milled receiver is and it takes 5.5 hours of machining, but they can't pain or finish a gun that holds up??

From what I have read they are not real responsive nor do they issue call tags. The "customer" pays to ship but as mentioned they will not honor a finish claim if it is due to use of a non BF CLP cleaner. So it's my fault.

Their "claim to fame"

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/SAM7R.html

Page 14 manual

https://www.scribd.com/document/130677929/Arsenal-SAM7R-Instruction-Manual

 

[briansmithwins]

The military paint uses alcohol as a solvent (insert drunken Russian joke here) and a lot of cleaners will strip it*.

From experience, CLP (either Breakfree or Royco) and Aeroshell fluid 18 will work very well for lubrication. Since I was shooting corrosive ammo in mine, I needed a water based cleaner. I used Simple Green aircraft cleaner to take of that.

BSW

*Of course, if you did this and were in the Army, you'd get nailed for using unapproved material to clean and for damaging your issued weapon.

 

[Rule3]

The military paint uses alcohol as a solvent (insert drunken Russian joke here) and a lot of cleaners will strip it*.

From experience, CLP (either Breakfree or Royco) and Aeroshell fluid 18 will work very well for lubrication. Since I was shooting corrosive ammo in mine, I needed a water based cleaner. I used Simple Green aircraft cleaner to take of that.

BSW

*Of course, if you did this and were in the Army, you'd get nailed for using unapproved material to clean and for damaging your issued weapon.

I also used M Pro 7 and Mil Com MC25 (both water based "green" cleaners) and they ate the finish, though not as bad as alcohol. I have done a lot of painting in my life and do not know of alcohol based paints for industry other than body paint makeup stuff??

 

[GBExpat]

I recall encountering several "re-blued" Russian re-arsed items (K98k and SVT-40) for which DA turned out to be the solvent.

At first this surprised me but later it was one of the first tests that I performed on new acquisitions of like source.

 

[Ignition Override]

Whether or not Your Arsenal is build on the basic Saiga gun or not, both of my Saigas are all-original (.223 and 7.62x39).

All I can tell you is that the main oil for cleaning has been HilcoLube, then recently CLP. To reduce friction, Birchwood Casey Gun Grease is then applied to the bolt lug channel and around the bolt carrier.

Both guns have used only Wolf and a limited quantity of Tula.
These rifles have had a perfect operation, with No exceptions. All-matching, original Russian components. You can depend on these original Saigas (non-modified). I hope that Arsenals are just as reliable.