Arsenal SamR7 vs Fime group sgl 21? which AK 47 to choose

[ColtRG1911]

hey guys it's my birthday in late November and im debating on what to get myself haha.

its between two ak's an arsenal samr7 or a fime group sgl 21 (formally made by arsenal)

I was going to go with the sgl 21 ( really wanted a russian made ak) Arsenal use to import and change them a bit but they stopped producing them and now fime group imports and changes them. I have heard many times that arsenal still builds them and fime is just a front for legal reasons (or something to do with the bulgarian people wanting exclusivity). but i have read many quality control issues with fime groups sgl's so i assume the quality took a dive??? (i also read that legion the custom shop for saiga stopped making the ones for import so that makes sense)

then i started looking at milled samr7's made by arsenal. It's a bit more expensive but i really don't care im looking for the most accurate and quality ak.. (some people say milled is more accurate but also heavier i don't care about weight only accuracy and quality... )

so its basically russia (sgl) vs bulgaria (samr7) which would you choose?

thanks for the help guys

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Go with a converted Saiga if you want a Russian AK, the barrel, receiver an trunnions are right of the Izmash line. Anything else is a franken-build with who knows what barrel and receiver slapped in between an "authentic" stock and foregrip.

 

[Inebriated]

I've yet to find a case where a milled receiver was the key to better accuracy. So until I find a definitive test, I won't buy the whole "milled is more accurate" thing. In theory, sure. In reality, the whole rifle wiggles and flexes when fired, so I truly doubt that a stiffer receiver is going to overcome all the other play in the rifle, and produce noticeably-better results. It's still a loose, non-free-floated rifle, shooting non-match ammo... ultimate accuracy isn't in its job description.

If it's a fighting rifle, get the SGL-21. It just runs, it's going to weigh a bit less (my SGL-21 with a Midwest rail weighs in at around 6.5lbs empty, the SAM7R is listed at 8lbs empty), and is going to give you fantastic results. Never tried to squeeze the most accuracy out of mine, but Nutnfancy's got a video of his doing 1" at 100 yards. Whether that's worth anything to you, I don't know. But it's there. You also have the benefit of parts availability for stamped guns.

If you just want to have a nice AK to take to the range, show friends, or even do some competitions with, then I'd say that the SAM7R is the winner. It's just got the cool-factor. It's going to have a better fit and finish (not that the SGL-21 is exactly slapped together, mine is better fit/finished than my Saiga 7.62), and it'll hold its value better than the SGL. Plus, 14x1mm muzzle devices are a tad easier to come by than the SGL's 24mm threading.

 

[InkEd]

Regarding the Russian SGL rifles. They arrive in the US as Saigas or Saiga parts. Legion was the importer. Arsenal Las Vegas puts them back to proper configuration. FIME is the new importer. The rifles come from the Izhmash (now called the Kalashnikov Concern) factory which makes the AK rifles. The Saiga is a sporting rifle therefore legal for import into the US. Identical to factory spec AK parts of domestic production (muzzle break, trigger, hand guard and few other pieces) are used on the reassembly to make the rifles 922 compliant.

IMHO the milled receiver offers no real advantage over the stamped AK receiver. It simply adds weight to the platform. However, it does mean you can brag about it.

The only problems of which I am aware with the FIME imported rifles are ones that have been reconfigured by someplace other than Arsenal Las Vegas.

 

[WinThePennant]

Anything by Arsenal is going to be just fine.

Something to consider. You can buy a Yugo M70 O-Pap (I have an N-Pap) AK 47 that is every bit as good as an Arsenal, but for a few hundred bucks less than you'd shell out for an Arsenal AK.

I bought the N-Pap because I liked the furniture better than the O-Pap.

 

[dvdcrr]

Sam7r. Heres mine with folding stock

I really like it. Feels about a half pound lighter than my scoped mp10
Balanced very well.

 

[dvdcrr]

The only stamped AK which could produce as tight groups as my best milled rifle was a saiga 308. Not all milled rifles are greatly accurate. My original low cap milled gun in the late nineties was the best I feel confident that an expert shooter could deliberately achieve sub 2moa with that one. All my other AK rifles are somewhere over 2 inch guns and at or under four inch guns at 100. The milled rifles feel more solid to me and I feel that they run smoother, same reliability.

 

[JustinJ]

The stamped Bulgarian have earned a reputation on par with Russian and by same accounts even higher quality. If it were me i'd be all over this:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com...x39mm-side-folding-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

[red rick]

I have a SAM7R-61 and I really like the feel of it. It might weight 8lbs. , but it doesn't feel like it to me. The SGL-21 weighs 7lbs. 2.4 oz. That is not a big weight difference to me in a rifle. I would buy it again over a SGL-21 if money wasn't tight. Nothing wrong with the SGL-21, I just like the looks and feel of the SAM7R better.

 

[JustinJ]

If it's a fighting rifle, get the SGL-21. It just runs, it's going to weigh a bit less (my SGL-21 with a Midwest rail weighs in at around 6.5lbs empty

Maybe without the bolt carrier group.

 

[Jackal]

These are simply the best bang for the buck in the AK world right now http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/ak74riflewuspartsw1magonlycodeb , if your at all interested in 5.45x39. I have one and the fit is easily on par with Arsenal and the finish is actually better (hey, we all know the Arsenal finish is crappy).

 

[Inebriated]

Maybe without the bolt carrier group.

Used an analog scale, and my SGL without a mag or brake. Came in at 6.5-6.8ish out of three weigh-ins. My Saiga 7.62, which now wears my SGL-21's furniture, and has the factory FSB, no cleaning rod, and again, no optic or mag, and a Midwest rail with AFG, comes in just UNDER 6lbs using the same scale.

 

[dvdcrr]

74's use a lighter contour barrel and so a nice sgl31 is a very nice little rifle.

 

[JustinJ]

Used an analog scale, and my SGL without a mag or brake. Came in at 6.5-6.8ish out of three weigh-ins. My Saiga 7.62, which now wears my SGL-21's furniture, and has the factory FSB, no cleaning rod, and again, no optic or mag, and a Midwest rail with AFG, comes in just UNDER 6lbs using the same scale.

I'm fairly certain your scale needs calibration. Why would you need multiple weigh ins? Even with an analog scale the displayed value should be the same each time.

 

[dvdcrr]

As far as the weight on a milled ak if a 5'6" vietnamese can hump one in the jungle for 8 years you should have no problem.

 

[Inebriated]

I'm fairly certain your scale needs calibration. Why would you need multiple weigh ins? Even with an analog scale the displayed value should be the same each time.

Maybe. You want to send me a scale?

The Saiga is without handguard retainers, cleaning rod, cleaning kit, and brake. It's a light rifle when empty. If you don't believe me, then I don't know what to tell you. Not my problem.

 

[JustinJ]

The Saiga is without handguard retainers, cleaning rod, cleaning kit, and brake. It's a light rifle when empty. If you don't believe me, then I don't know what to tell you. Not my problem.

No need to get defensive. Specifications I've read for the rifle without a mag are 7.15 lbs and i'm all but certain the MI quad rail is heavier than the standard hand guards. My Arsenal 74 at least felt noticeably heavier with it. I'm not trying to nitpick but a 6.5 pound rifle is awfully light and I don't believe anybody should buy an AK under the impression that it will be just 6.5 pounds. Most of the AK weight is fairly forward as well which increases perceived weight.

 

[Inebriated]

I'm not defensive. Like I said, it doesn't have the added weight of a brake and all the other stuff. When I add the new FSB tomorrow and throw the cleaning rod in there, I'd be glad to weight it again. It's a light rifle. My SGL also doesn't typically have the cleaning rod or kit in it, which does add weight. Wearing factory polymer, it's just not a very heavy rifle either.

 

[WinThePennant]

Who cares what an AK weighs? Heavy.

You care about weight? Buy an AR.