Article: Have a kid, lose your guns?

[Kodiaz]

safety inspection are you for real does that happen somewhere?

 

[joab]

joab ~ 14?? How old is old enough, then?

16 to babysit

 

[dpesec]

Thain-
I do agree with your post, but I would like to point out to the other members of this board that if you choose not to follow a law then you also choose to accept the consequences.
Even if a law is illegal/unconstitutional, if you break it know full well that you will face the punishment until the law can be overturned.

I just want everyones eyes open,

thefabulousfink

True, but if the jury decides not to convict, no problem. This is something that judges and proscutors don't like. Just because it's against "a law" the jury can still chose not to convict. In effect, saying that law is stupid.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Wow! This is an eye opener to me. I honestly thought that wacky laws like this were only found in England, Australia and Canada. Government bureaucrats in the United States are allowed to tell us, backed by criminal penalties, how to store our guns IN OUR OWN HOMES?!!! When did this happen? Did I sleep through it? This is a rather major turning point in our decline towards a police state. You'd think I would have heard about it before this. I don't remember the national debate about it. Was there any?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Depends on the children, Telperion. My sister's kids, at that age? All but the youngest, who was a bit troubled. My brother's? Nope.

In large part, because my sister's offspring had been around guns and their dad had given them some instruction. They've seen critters and reactive targets shot, had a chance to internalize what guns will and won't do. But my brother's not a shooter; his children don't have that information and experience.

That's why the decision is better left to parents rather than lawmakers: parents are in the best position to know what their kid can be trusted with. You worry their judgement might be bad? Parents can already be held liable for the actions of their minor children, which is as much law as needs to be applied to the situation.

--Herself

+1

 

[V4Vendetta]

"True, but if the jury decides not to convict, no problem. This is something that judges and proscutors don't like. Just because it's against "a law" the jury can still chose not to convict. In effect, saying that law is stupid"

In the US, judges can overrule the verdict for any reason they want. It's a legal thing called "Legal Verdict Not Withstanding". For any reason the judge desires, he can change the verdict. So even if the jury sides with you, you can still lose.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

"True, but if the jury decides not to convict, no problem. This is something that judges and proscutors don't like. Just because it's against "a law" the jury can still chose not to convict. In effect, saying that law is stupid"

In the US, judges can overrule the verdict for any reason they want. It's a legal thing called "Legal Verdict Not Withstanding". For any reason the judge desires, he can change the verdict. So even if the jury sides with you, you can still lose.

You have that wrong. The judge can over rule the jury only in defense of the defendant, i.e., to protect him from the jury. He cannot over rule the jury that has chosen to protect a defendant from a bad law or bad prosecution.

 

[Mizzle187]

This is a hell of a topic. First and foremost i persoanlly and my brothers and sisters were not left home alone untill we were in say middle school. We werent left home with young siblings untill we were in high-school and if it was a must. We were lucky we had a stay at home mom. And even then they wouldnt leave us at home if they didnt think we were mature enough for it. I undertand that some people are divorced or both parents work and cant afford day care,etc... and that requires for tough decisions(it would for me at least). As far as the guns. I am all for teaching early and often. As far as leaving guns available for kids in an emergency they would have to be a teenager and I would have to know without a doubt they were ready for it. You have to remember kids act differently when alone. I would put him/her through a series of test some they knew about but most of them they wouldnt know about. Its a tough tough decision. IMO there are plenty of other things that can prevent stuff like in that story that have nothing to do with guns like having the alarm(less motion) on when they are home alone and having a safe house.

 

[merk]

The Carpenter family story is tragic, but it does raise a question for me: how many THR members would feel comfortable, law or no, with giving children of the ages described, unsupervised access to the gun safe? How have you discussed it with them?

Ive had access to my shotgun since I got it when I turned 13. Hell, it was in its case in the corner of the room. I guess my parents knew I wasnt a stupid kid I guess. I dunno.

Now ive got my gun cabinet in the corner with my shotgun and two rifles and access to about 3000 rounds of ammunition. Even before I turned 18 I had my .22 and shotgun in my rooms with over 1000 rounds of ammunition for any given gun, though I didnt keep the magazines loaded for the .22, ive got one un-chambered shell in my shotgun.


Ya know...Just in case.....



Blah, strayed off, sorry about that.

Thats a damn sad story.

 

[TallPine]

Were the 12 year olds of 50 years ago so much more wise than the 12 year olds of today?

To some degree, "yes" - because of the way they were and are raised.

Kids in the "good old days" generally had more responsibilities thrust on them at younger ages, because it required the efforts of all family members past infancy to survive.

I heard that when Laura Ingalls Wilder originally submitted her "little house" books to the publisher, that she was told that it would have been impossible for her and her sisters to have done the things they did at such young ages . So she modified the series so that one of the moves was completely left out (a couple years' time period) so that the girls would be "older" in the first book(s).


Maybe it would just be simpler to have a law that you have to lock your kids up in padded room ...?

 

[joab]

To some degree, "yes" - because of the way they were and are raised.

From the time I was in 4th grade I had chores as did my sisters.
When the parents got home from work the chores were expected to be done and home work if not done was to be at least started.

If yard work was needed I was expected to do it without being asked. If home repairs and auto work was needed I was the helper without discussion.

If mom wanted something from the store a half mile away I was expected to go without complaint.

My 15 year old is expected to not tie up the phone line with his computer, not play the Playstation too long and not go to "those" site on the computer. He usually fails all of these tasks with impunity.

His mother took him to the movies after working on her feet all day and they ate at the food court. She asked him to go get the food order when it was ready.
He refused because his hair was not perfect and he didn't want his friends to see him like that even thoguh he was "starving"
She finally got up to get the food, threw it in the trash and walked out and left him to find his own way home(2 whole miles).
It's the first time she ever stood up to him.
Then she called me crying because she might have hurt his feelings.
This is typical of how his friends parents act toward their children

That's the difference between how kids were and are raised

It took me about a half hour to find him and hurt his feelings a little more

 

[pax]

Whose 15-year-old, Joab?

pax

 

[V4Vendetta]

"His mother took him to the movies after working on her feet all day and they ate at the food court. She asked him to go get the food order when it was ready.
He refused because his hair was not perfect and he didn't want his friends to see him like that even thoguh he was "starving""


Jerk. Kids like that give kids like me a bad reputation.


"She finally got up to get the food, threw it in the trash and walked out and left him to find his own way home(2 whole miles)."

Good girl. 2 miles isn't that far to walk home though. Maybe next time she could drive to a food court in Canada.

 

[joab]

Ours?

She lives with him and gets last say really only say, should have specified that she was my ex.

He doesn't act like that around me, he tried once

 

[pax]

Gotcha -- that does make a difference.

Didn't really mean to sound like I was getting on your case.

pax

 

[V4Vendetta]

I was a saintly youth. I lived on a farm with pigs, chickens, horses, cows & a goat. Not that we had to have these animals for a living, my dad just liked to have critters around the house. I told him to get a dog. But I still helped with the animals anyway. I worked hard for 3 days building my mom a wooden deck the way she always wanted. The chickens then crapped all over it. I told my dad then that either the chickens go or I do. He then got rid of the chickens. Then he got pigs. I helped set up the fencing, I fed them, I watered them, I rounded them up & got them back in their pen when they escaped which happened ALL THE TIME!!!!! Then 3 of the 4 pigs had 40 piglets each. They all escaped. Have you ever had to chase down a herd of 120 piglets through woods, briars & flies??? They ran all around the neiborhood reeking all kinds of havoc. They uprooted one lady's entire backyard. We finally caught them & turned them into bacon. Now my dad has horses. I hate them equally. But my point is that no matter how much I detest doing these things, I always helped. I did 85% of the work with the critters & got 10% or less of the profits. THAT, is love.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

The problem is that the government has created the atmosphere where people feel that big brother is in charge of how you raise your kids. Everybody is worried that some social worker will be assigned to their case because a teacher reported that their kid is being abused because he doesn't have a television in his room and is made to do chores, which is stunting his social development.

 

[CaCrusin]

I had my own guns by the time I was 11. When I was 13, my parents took my newly adopted sister out of town as her sperm-doner father had gotten out of jail and had threatened to kidnap her. I was left with my younger brother and sister. I got a call from the jerk's mother saying that he had just fired a shot through there window and that she was calling the police. I went in to my room, took out my 1911 Government model and loaded it. I put the other kids in the center of the house, quietly watching tv, and waited for him to show up. I knew that if he came, I would shoot him.

I'm glad that I didn't have to do that, but knowing that I could changed me and, I think, for the better.

CaCrusin

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I had my own guns by the time I was 11. When I was 13, my parents took my newly adopted sister out of town as her sperm-doner father had gotten out of jail and had threatened to kidnap her. I was left with my younger brother and sister. I got a call from the jerk's mother saying that he had just fired a shot through there window and that she was calling the police. I went in to my room, took out my 1911 Government model and loaded it. I put the other kids in the center of the house, quietly watching tv, and waited for him to show up. I knew that if he came, I would shoot him.

I'm glad that I didn't have to do that, but knowing that I could changed me and, I think, for the better.

CaCrusin

Well said.

 

[Old Dog]

I can't agree that "the government" created the atmosphere where people feel that big brother is in charge of how children are raised. We did this to ourselves, and much of it was the result of the permissiveness and the outgrowth of the liberal movement -- and such things as the preachings of folks like Dr. Spock (not Mr. Spock), etc. Many parents of boomers, having grown up deprived during the depression or the war years, coupled with the advent of the working mom syndrome, bought into the new age of parenting concepts ... which ripened the atmosphere for the newly-enlarging government to step in. All part of the concept that no one is responsible for the own actions, no one is held accountable for anything; your misdeeds are always someone else's fault ... Hence the rapid outbreak of all the brandnew social services agencies heretofore unneeded in our society. WE allowed this to happen -- government didn't cause it.

The problem is that the government has created the atmosphere where people feel that big brother is in charge of how you raise your kids.

Thing is, there are still outposts in this country where folks are oblivious to all this ... presumably, mostly rural areas, where local and country governments not only don't have the resources to monitor all the area's children, but also where the prevailing attitudes toward child-rearing might contain a bit more common sense ... Even in urban areas, there are many who don't understand the power the government has to intercede into their parenting -- until it happens to them, and then they're surprised by it all.