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Artillery ND

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by geim druth, Apr 12, 2008.

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  1. geim druth

    geim druth Member

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    Rule 3 or rule 4 violation, which do you think?

    http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/topstories/index.ssf/2008/04/piece_of_artillery_crashes_int.html



    Piece of artillery crashes into home in Jefferson Twp.
    by Bill Swyaze and Kristen Alloway/The Star-Ledger Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:30 AM
    A piece of artillery apparently misfired yesterday from the Picatinny Arsenal in Morris County and landed about 2½ miles away, crashing into the roof of a house in the Oak Ridge section of Jefferson Township and onto a child's bed, authorities said.

    No one was hurt in the incident, which occurred between 2 and 3 p.m., but the family cat was killed, Jefferson police said.

    Picatinny officials said last evening they are investigating the incident. Officials from the base sent an explosive ordnance team to the home to investigate.


    Picatinny officials said tonight they are investigating the incident. Officials from the base sent an explosive ordnance team to the home to investigate.

    The base commander, Brig. Gen. William Phillips, and Lt. Col. John Stack also visited the home tonight, post spokesman Peter Rowland said.

    "We sent an explosive ordnance team to look into the matter," Rowland said. "I can't confirm it, but I can't rule it out either."


    The base commander, Brig. Gen. William Phillips, and Lt. Col. John Stack also visited the home last evening, post spokesman Peter Rowland said.

    The homeowner heard a loud noise of something crashing through the roof and found the fragment had struck her 10-year-old daughter's bed. Her daughter, Casandra, was not home at the time, Detective Joe Kratzel of the Jefferson Township police said.

    "Thank God my daughter was not here," said the homeowner, Cheryl Angle of Longwood Lake Road. "My daughter would have been in that bed."

    Family members said Casandra had been picked up 20 minutes earlier to go to a sleepover at a friend's house. A 14-year-old son, Brandon, was home at the time.

    Because the shell set a blanket smoldering, family members feared it might have started a house fire.

    "It could have been a much more severe tragedy if no one was home," said Frederick Angle who described a five-inch hole in roof. "The house could have burned down."

    The 6-inch by 4-inch, 2-pound "piece of metal was so hot you could not touch it," Kratzel said.

    Authorities called the Federal Aviation Administration and Picatinny to determine what had fallen from the sky, Kratzel said. U.S. Army representatives "told us it was something from the arsenal."

    The homeowner told police she discovered the piece of shell on her daughter's bed, where the cat was sleeping, Kratzel said.

    "It's tough," Frederick Engle said about their tabby. "She had a heart of gold."

    Richard Rossback has lived on Longwood Lake Road for about 30 years and says there's always been the sound of weapon fire from over the mountain.

    "It's quiet for awhile, then they start testing their stuff and then boom, boom, boom," Rossback said. "Sometimes it shakes the house and shakes the dishes in the cabinet. But it's not alarming. You get used to it," Rossback said.

    The base conducted three kinds of testing yesterday, base spokesman Rowland said. Those tests included 120-mm rifle bullet, static warhead testing, which is not fired, and 125 mm to 155mm shaped-charge munition.

    While Picatinny has indoor ranges and other facilities for weapons testing, it also tests munitions in a restricted 100-acre area in the northwest corner of the base, adjacent to Jefferson Township.
     
  2. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    well thats it then it was not negligent.

    with out any details at all you yell and scream ND why? how? if they fired at a target and it bounced how is that a nd? too many if's here with out any details, try again later!
     
  3. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    ND, AD, ET, whatever... the base should be held responsible if the projectile came from them. Try taking someone's eye out with a ricochet and then just shrugging it off.

    Reminds me of the jet engine in Donnie Darko that crashed into the house lol.
     
  4. geim druth

    geim druth Member

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    I'm comfortable calling this a ND, even if it is a bounced shot.

    What is the range of a 120 mm rifled gun, anyway?
     
  5. Nate C.

    Nate C. Member

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    Great. Now they will want to ban artillery.
     
  6. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    So, this shell traveled back in time?
     
  7. never_retreat

    never_retreat Member

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    I have a friend that works there so if i should get the real scoop monday. He had taken friday off, we were just having a discussion about this. The large artillery is shot into the side of a mountain. The property is not large enough to actually fire those big guns into the air. I think its only like 7500 acres.
    So this was most likely something that broke apart and ricocheted.
     
  8. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    If an artillery shell was fired from the base and punched through the roof of a civilian house off-base, then somebody was negligent.
     
  9. jjbduke2004

    jjbduke2004 Member

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    Like your friend, I had the day off on Friday so I missed out on this. I was actually at the Cherry Ridge Range when it happened.

    I will note (and will revise if necessary on Monday) that "static tests" were mentioned in the article. A static test is where a projectile is mounted on a test stand and detonated (not fired). If this was the case then it was not a "shot" out of a cannon.

    I did not hear any new details tonight at the Rod and Gun game dinner.
     
  10. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    how can you possibly be negligent if the gun was pointed in a safe direction, it was aimed at a safe traget and back stop? why not just the simple accident where somthing went wrong? Sure who ever it belongs to should be responsible for the damage but negligent with out details is wrong I have grown so tired of that word. Some folks here have to blame some one for some thing all the time. even if it were just an accident.

    Its called inocent until proven guilty like it or not and so far there is no evidence to point out guilt.
     
  11. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    I'm sorry, but I was completely de-railed by the horrible writting in the article. Did anyone else find this amusing:

    If you simply read it as written, the aritllery piece itself crashed through the roof of the house.
     
  12. jjbduke2004

    jjbduke2004 Member

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  13. DE_.50

    DE_.50 Member

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    Wow!:what:
    Thankfully, their daughter was not home. I hope the Base will pay for the damages.
     
  14. geim druth

    geim druth Member

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    Obviously I was wrong to assume this was an incident involving a firearm, and agree that I could have waited for the follow up story to provide all the details. But isn't this still a case of negligent discharge?

    The way I see it, if I had a fireworks factory, and through a freak accident a projectile penetrated my neighbor's home and killed his pet, I would be negligent because I lit the fuse and was not 100% sure of where my projectile would hit.

    What do you think?
     
  15. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    Somewhere along the way, one of those things has to stop being true in order for the round to end up somewhere other than the backstop.
     
  16. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    Well after reading this article with further details I would have to say yes the military is responsible for it. However I do not think they were negligent by any definetion of the word. This sounds more like just a freak accident.
     
  17. XDKingslayer

    XDKingslayer member

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    What do I think?

    Good shot!
     
  18. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    No

    The round detonated on a static test. The artillery round was not chambered and fired. Therefore no ND or even AD occured.

    It is a testing/ordinance accident.

    Yes, the arsenal will make good on everything. They will also probably pay damages. They will almost certainly suspend all testing at the facility until a complete safety basis review is conducted and any findings addressed by changes in SOP or facilities.
     
  19. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Artillery Shrapnel Hits House, Kills Cat

    Wow! new Jersey really has become dangerous!

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/artillery-shrapnel-hits-house-kills-cat/20080414150209990001
    ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP, N.J. (April 13) - A New Jersey family had some scary moments after their house was hit by a fiery missile.

    A fragment of a two-pound artillery shell plummeted through the roof of their Jefferson Township home around 2:30 p.m. Friday, landing on their little girl's bed -- ultimately killing the family's cat.

    CBS Station WCBS correspondent Lou Young reports the shell was fired off from the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.S. Army's sprawling weapons research facility in Picatinny, 2.5 to 3 miles away.

    "They heard the explosion, they felt the concussion and a few seconds later the piece came through the roof," homeowner Fred Angle said.

    The sheer random chance of the event is staggering. Shrapnel came sailing through the air in an arc punching a hole in the roof the size of a fist, into the bedroom where 10-year-old Cassandra sleeps.

    The piece of shrapnel landed where the girl normally sleeps.

    Brandon Gadow, Cassandra's brother, tried to grab the shrapnel, but it was too hot. He pulled the blanket and the cat outside and called the police.

    The family's cat was injured and had to be euthanized, but Cassandra was spared because she was picked up early for a playdate.

    "Literally she would've been sitting in the bed with the cat because that was where she was before she left," Cassandra's mother Cheryl Angle said. "The cat ended up staying there when she left."

    Base spokesman Peter Rowlands said, "We deeply regret what happened and also the effect it's had on the family, the loss of their pet, and also the damage to their home, and just the fright they experienced."

    The Army knows it was lucky -- that it dodged a bullet, not to put too fine a point on it -- and as a result all outdoor weapons testing has been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.

    Army brass will be back out at the house soon to talk about compensation for the family.

    Picatinny is the site of the Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, whose mission is to conduct research, development and engineering for weapons systems.

    Ironically, the Army says the accident occurred while it was testing safer way to dispose of unwanted artillery shells.
     
  20. catfish101

    catfish101 Member

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    It hard to say it was negligent. There are things that can go wrong that are out of human control with artillery. It isn't like shooting your pistol.
     
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