As Quick As The Flip of a Coin

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Apachedriver

Apachedriver

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Just sharing a developing example of how easily situations can change and escalate even when you're trying to do right by others.


http://www.kwtx.com/content/news/385468981.html

NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas (KWTX) As many as seven Fort Hood soldiers were said to have been involved in a shootout at a city park in New Braunfels Monday.

The soldiers told police they intervened in a disturbance between a couple at the park and that led to the shooting, police said.
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As the soldiers were walking away, the woman ran to her boyfriend’s truck, retrieved a handgun wich she handed to her boyfriend, who began shooting at the soldiers.
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Police said the shooter fired a total of 19 rounds from his handgun.

The soldier fired seven rounds, one of which struck the suspect in his right elbow, according to police.
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Rule #1 - Never insert yourself into a domestic dispute.

Rule #2 - If it's not your fight, call 911 and be a good witness.

Rule #3 - Refer to rules 1 & 2.
 
You can keep those rules Plan2Live, I will help a neighbor out if I can. Sometimes you can't just mind you own business. It ain't all about you.................

I would have hoped I would have intervened like those soldiers did.
 
Acera said:
You can keep those rules Plan2Live, I will help a neighbor out if I can. Sometimes you can't just mind you own business. It ain't all about you.................

I would have hoped I would have intervened like those soldiers did.
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I understand where you're coming from Acera but when I end up dead, it is all about me.

It sounds to me as if the soldiers were trying to do the gallant thing and come to the assistance of a woman who may have been getting the short end of a stick. Sadly, she saw fit to change sides by arming her man.

I'll give you rule #2 as circumstances dictate, but rule #1 is solid. A lot of cops get killed and injured in domestic disputes, and they are trained to fight.
 
Gotta agree with the crowd, although it's terrible that a man (if you can even call him that) would abuse a woman in public or at all I would and have called the police and let them sort it out. Unless it's a true life and death situation and the perp is going to seriously hurt, kill, or rape, I will not intervene.
 
Barry the Bear said:
Gotta agree with the crowd, although it's terrible that a man (if you can even call him that) would abuse a woman in public or at all I would and have called the police and let them sort it out. Unless it's a true life and death situation and the perp is going to seriously hurt, kill, or rape, I will not intervene.
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Agree 1000x.


Not only is it the law but it's what those who train in CC are taught.
 
I'm afraid I side with Acera -- a beating can maim if not kill in seconds. (cops are only minutes away... right?) ;)

And "don't get involved" is not something you tell soldiers. God bless that they still exist within the meaning of "citizen" vice bystander.

Domestic disputes, though, are quicksand.
 
...abuse a woman in public...
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...a beating...
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We're getting way ahead of ourselves. The article doesn't say that anyone was being abused or that there was a beating. It says that there was "a disturbance between a couple".

"Disturbance" could mean something as simple as raised voices.
...do the gallant thing and come to the assistance of a woman who may have been getting the short end of a stick...
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It doesn't say anything about who was getting the short end of the stick or who started it. It also doesn't say that the soldiers were being gallant or that they were assisting the woman.

For all we know the situation could have been some guy getting screamed at by his girlfriend and her being told by the soldiers to shut up.
 
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This is about as clear as the WalMart Shootout. Everyone knows what happened and how it should have been dealt with until they don't.
 
Having witnessed domestic abuse before, I have called police. A womens (or mans)bruises will heal, a gunshot or stabbing may not, if you intervene and escalate things. Unlike writing chicken ass tickets for going 3mph over the speed limit, this IS police duty.
 
We're getting way ahead of ourselves. The article doesn't say that anyone was being abused or that there was a beating. It says that there was "a disturbance between a couple".

"Disturbance" could mean something as simple as raised voices.
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If that's the case, even more reason for a passerby to mind his own business.
 
Quote:
...do the gallant thing and come to the assistance of a woman who may have been getting the short end of a stick...
It doesn't say anything about who was getting the short end of the stick or who started it. It also doesn't say that the soldiers were being gallant or that they were assisting the woman.
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That's fine you read the story and came away with a different take than I did, but that's not the point. The point is how quickly and unpredictably a domestic dispute can turn. It's fine for me to tell my best bud what a jerk my wife was last night, it's not OK for him to agree with me. Add alcohol, drugs, bad day at work or whatever and simple things get out of control real fast. At this point adding firearms to the mix is unwise at best.
 
And we have 26 rounds with one hit and a soldier (the only one with a hit) claiming he was using cover fire in a public park.
Solms park is in the middle of town with houses all around except for the golf course.
 
...adding firearms to the mix...
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Folks, there were no firearms ...until the perps drew them after the fact. Until that point, we had unarmed soldiers stopping "a woman being abused."

Again, God bless that at least someone tried to do the right thing.
 
X-Rap said:
And we have 26 rounds with one hit and a soldier (the only one with a hit) claiming he was using cover fire in a public park.
Solms park is in the middle of town with houses all around except for the golf course.
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"Cover fire" doesn't infer "spray and pray". Cover fire is aimed fire used to provide protection to exposed individuals as they move to cover from incoming direct or indirect fires.

I winced a bit when I saw the quote with that term in it only because military speak is often misinterpreted in the civilian world.

If anything, on the surface it appears the man firing 19 rounds wasn't going to stop firing unless ammo ran out or until he was hit.

I haven't seen anymore updates other than none of the soldiers are expected to be charged.
 
That's fine you read the story and came away with a different take than I did, but that's not the point.
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It's not that my take is different than yours, it's that it doesn't make sense to argue about whether or not the soldiers were right to stop the abuse/beating when there is nothing in the article that states abuse/beating took place.

What I'm saying is that many of the comments on this thread aren't based on what the article says, but rather on unjustified assumptions people have made.
Until that point, we had unarmed soldiers stopping "a woman being abused."
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No we didn't. There is NOTHING in the article that states anyone was being abused/injured/beaten. It merely notes that there was a "disturbance/fight". That COULD have been abuse, but it could just as easily have been a loud argument or even just a woman screaming at her boyfriend.
Again, God bless that at least someone tried to do the right thing.
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We don't know anything about whether they were trying to do the right thing, nor do we have enough information to know if what they did was right. They could have just been irritated at the noise and told them to shut up. Did you read the article?

The video commentary in this link states that it was "an argument".
http://www.kens5.com/news/shots-fired-at-new-braunfels-park-police-say/263151510
 
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My question is what the heck was anyone doing in the park at 0100? Park curfew is 2200 if I recall correctly!

-Jenrick
 
Reminds me of the Ash Street shootout in Tacoma. Lots of good old UCMJ for everyone involved.
 
I winced a bit when I saw the quote with that term in it only because military speak is often misinterpreted in the civilian world.
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I can't think of a time I've seen that term used in a civilian application so I'm sure you did wince a bit.
I pointed out the rounds fired mainly to highlight what I believe to be more typical than not with regards to the ratio of shots fired vs hits.
 
Updated Article from MySA

No charges for the soldiers but charges for the couple starting with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...diers-involved-in-shooting-at-New-8340454.php

The soldiers thought the disturbance was concluded, when they said a female handed a 9 mm handgun located under the driver’s seat to her boyfriend, who began firing at the soldiers.
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Soldiers told police that they ran to their vehicles for cover as the weapon was fired in their direction, according to the release. One soldier, police said, retrieved his personal handgun to shoot “cover fire” so the other soldiers could find a safe place to evade the shooter.
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An article from a different source stated the gunfire continued as a vehicle departed the scene.
 
@X-Rap - I'm tracking with your point.

However, my wincing was directed at the thought of civilian newsreaders picturing a Hollywood combat scene or Saturday morning paintball with all the rounds flying everywhere except near the target.
 
I can't think of a time I've seen that term used in a civilian application so I'm sure you did wince a bit.
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I recently finished a book which related some anecdotes about military/law enforcement cooperation. In one case, an LEO called to the military personnel for cover while he ran to a new position and was surprised when they immediately began firing in the direction of the barricaded suspect.

That went into the "lessons learned" column--it's important to understand what words mean to different organizations.
 
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What I find most troubling is that "she" went to her boyfriend's truck to retrieve a firearm then give that firearm to her boyfriend who then used it on the passersby soldiers that initially tried to act as peacemakers to their domestic squabble? Is that what happened?

That is seriously messed up, and it should serve as another example for why we as responsibly-armed citizens better be sure we have the facts straight and our judge of character zero'd for the situation before we think we should intervene; because we really should not. I remember reading here a posted scenario recently where "the good guy" based on appearances took out the "bad guys" who were in fact undercover detectives in a gufaffle w/ a drug dealer wearing a suit!
 
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