Assisting young Marine with pistol training?

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Igloodude

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All,
As I'm the only (or perhaps the most responsible) "gun-nut" she knows, a coworker has asked me if I'd be willing to assist her 18-ish Marine Corps Private son - apparently he's done very well on the rifle qual, but not well on the pistol qual, and he's getting deployed to Iraq in a couple months (currently home on leave).
I'm former Navy myself, but really only got competent at pistol shooting post-exit, and even now do mostly Bullseye competition with a couple practical matches thrown in over the last couple years.
I can rent a Beretta 9mm at the local range (Manchester Firing Line), but beyond #1 reviewing the four safety rules as I do for anyone I take to the range, and #2 giving him a more relaxed environment to familiarize himself with the pistol than the Marines might offer, I'm a bit vague on what I should do from there, and was hoping you folks here could lend a hand and give me some advice. And I haven't talked to him directly, so he may well just tell me he wants to roll through course of fire so-and-so X number of times till he scores X or better, but I'd like to be prepared to offer more guidance if needed. Help? :)
 
while i am FAR from being a expert pistol shot (i'd say i am barely ok with a pistol)....

Make sure to teach him proper grip, shooting stance, trigger control. A basic knowledge of the above should help him to be compentant enough to get the job done.
 
Basically a handgun is a short rifle with out the Shoulder stock and other requsite supports and aid for shooting. First work on a good firm grip, check out his hand shake and if it is good and firm start there. Second have him work thru the standard rifle aiming mentality that the Marines taught(BRASS) and followup with working on concentrating on the front sight with a good trigger squeeze.
 
The best aid to determine if the Marine has a bad 'flinch' or is anticipating the shot is randomly insert dummy rounds (snap caps) in the magazine. You will see anticipation when the hammer goes click, that front sight will dip.

Pilgrim
 
It's great that your willing to help him.

If you think he needs more instruction and coaching then you are able to provide, find an instructor for him to work with. See if the range has an instructor available or ask around. I bet if you explain why you need an instructor, you might find one willing to do it for free (I would).

If you do coach him yourself, stress the importance of a good, smooth trigger pull, even when shooting quickly. As a Bullseye shooter, you understand what I mean, and a smooth trigger pull is necessary no matter what type of shooting he's doing.

Other than that, work with him to get him familiar with the pistol. Rent the Berretta and make sure he knows he quickly disengage the safety as he brings it up from "low ready." Depending on his unit SOP, he may be required to carry with an empty chamber. Show him the Isreali technique of how you incorporate the action of racking the slide into the draw stroke.
 
I'd say that just more practice (if he hasn't acquired any obvious bad habits) would help. An instructor would be fine if one's available, but just the extra rounds downrange from the M9 should help.

Make sure you make it realistic--140-degree heat, blowing sand, bad smells, and the occasional round whizzing by...:eek:

TC
 
Here's the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit Training Manual. It's quite a good read.

from the manual... said:
FOREWORD

The United States Army Marksmanship Unit has compiled this guide with the intent of providing assistance to pistol marksmen throughout the United States. Much of the information has been contributed by championship caliber U.S. Army pistol shooters and coaches. The text is designed for ready reference and contains the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship and the most advanced techniques known to these experts. The data presented represents a comprehensive coverage of the many facets of pistol marksmanship and related subjects. Portions of the information contained herein were obtained from the research of authoritative articles, personal interviews and observation of foreign competitions. Noteworthy contributions were received from many experienced persons closely associated with pistol activities not connected with military training.
Click to expand...
 
Practice does not make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect.
Move as close to the target and shoot as fast as you can to get the groups you want. Keep shooting at this distance and speed until you can see an inprovement in your groups. Then either move back or speed up. Repeat.
 
Depending on how much time you have to work with, attending an IDPA tournament with the lad might be a good experience for getting used to concepts like use of cover, firing from akward (but more realistic) positions, and reloading on the clock. If he's truly green, this may be too much, but if he can perform safely it's a great way to learn a lot about one's strengths and weaknesses in the course of a day.

Practice does not make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect.
Click to expand...
Good point. I like that better than "If practice makes perfect, and nobody's perfect, why practice?"
 
The problem is more than likely not the Marine. The problem is probably the pistol. I also shot high expert on the rifle range but blew it the first time I hit the pistol range.

The problem wasn't me it's trying to Kentucky windage a POS pistol with non-adjustable sights that I'm sure someone before me used to drive tent stakes. When it shoots high and left by a foot at the 7 yard line it's hard to judge when you're further away. I contemplated taking the rounds out of the magazine and actually throwing them at the target. I would have probably scored better.

Give him a real pistol to gauge him first. If he shoots fine with a real pistol, the problem is obvious.
 
contact a local Corp recruiter, im sure hed be more than willing to help out. that way he get to learn any specfics the corp wants. and also alot of the recruiters have combat experiance
 
Igloodude,... time permitting, I would make sure he understands the basics of: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Control first. Make sure he is familiar and as competent as possible with the issued weapon. Make sure he can reload without looking at the pistol, and (this may be too much, but) try to incorporate at least a cursory coverage of clearing malfunctions.

All of this is a lot to cover adequately in a one day session, but in my opinion crucial, just to have a solid base to build on. Distance shooting with accuracy is good, but I would first concentrate on close targets, 3-15 yards. Any further than 25 yards and I'd much rather emphasize a transition to a "long-gun". Just my .02.
Good Luck
 
Find an outdoor range. He needs to learn how to shoot and scoot, preferably while carrying a full combat load including an M16 (AR-15). He should get familiar with shooting around barriers. Probably, a good deal of his rifle training will serve him well with the pistol, he just needs more acquaintance time. Say 2000 rounds over the course of a couple of days.

If you know any vets who have seen combat, see if they would be willing to talk to the young man. Maybe in the backyard, over a few beers. So what if he's only 18. He's going to freakin' Iraq.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Right now I haven't talked to him directly, just to his mother, so as I said I'm not sure what he's looking for or whether his problem is fundamentals, lack of practice/familiarity, or something else. While I'd love to get him (and for that matter, me) more "real-world" training, I suspect it is only going to consist of a session or two at Manchester Firing Line running through the basics.

@BrianWilliams: What's "BRASS" an acronym for?
 
I have always felt that the USMC pistol qual course was lacking in a few "real world" areas. If possible, have him bring the holster that he will be deploying with. Teach him how to draw from his holster properly.

Teach him the basics. The basics do not change from bullseye to combat shooting. The difference is that in a combat enviroment, he will have a very limited time to get a proper grip, stance and sight alignment. It all needs to be muscle memory. That is something that is lacking in the military with marksmanship training.

I wish that the Marine Corps would stress getting your pistol into the fight as much as how to shoot it when it is there. For a majority of the people who carry a pistol into an actual firefight, it is a backup weapon, not a primary. Getting the pistol out of the holster and into the fight is half the battle. As it is now, the USMC course of fire is done exclusivly with an unholstered weapon.
 
If his pistol qual was anything like my pistol qual, it went something like...

(armorer drags out big box)

Here take one.

Nope. Take one that isn't falling apart.

Fire a magazine to familiarize.

Fire course. Count holes. Tell scorer.

Fire course. Count holes. One's missing. Find bullet while walking back. Carry it to scorer, and tell him that you're not gonna be penalized for ammo assembled by the lowest bidder.

Get signoff, and go back to typing.
 
Been a long time but
Breathe, get a good breath
Release 1/2 and hold breath
Aim, get proper sight alignment with focus on front sight
Squeeze the trigger in a steady and consistant manner
SHOT

This is what I remember of what I learned as a young Jarhead in the sands of Parris Island.
 
While helping him learn to shoot a pistol with some skill is nice of you do you realy think the Marines are in the habit of handing out M9's to 18-ish Marine Corps Privates ? If all he has received is basic pistol training I imagine it is because he isn't going to be running around with a pistol in the first place .

Honestly the whole thing sounds like something that came up in one of those awkward conversation where his mother asking him about his training durring Boot and he didn't realy know what to say to her .
Is he even a combat soldier or a memeber of a support unit such as a mechanic for the vehicles ?

You probably haven't spoken to him directly because he hasn't figured out a polite way to tell you NO thanks without seeming rude to one of his mothers friends .

Chances are if the kid is fresh out of boot the Marines have him thinking he can whip the world single handedly and he feels your Help would be just a waste of his time .

Just my .02
 
That video pretty much sums it up - Stance, Grip, Sighting. Then just coach him along the way to correct mistakes you notice.

Some of the more detailed things I'd mention are:

Have him dry fire after he shoots through the first magazine. Make sure he understands the purpose of dry firing; to relieve involuntary flinch and practice sighting. Make sure he follows through and keeps the sight in the same spot on the target immediately after the click.

You could also make him aware of the trigger and how you don't have to fully release it after each shot, but instead just release it enough to reset the pistol.

Recently I have started inserting spent casings back into the magazine to simulate a malfunction. But that might be too much for the first day; you'll just need to see how quickly he picks this stuff up.
 
While helping him learn to shoot a pistol with some skill is nice of you do you realy think the Marines are in the habit of handing out M9's to 18-ish Marine Corps Privates ? If all he has received is basic pistol training I imagine it is because he isn't going to be running around with a pistol in the first place .
Click to expand...

If he actually qualified on the range as an 18 year old private, there is a good chance that it is because he will carry one. The Marine Corps does not usually hand out pistol qual quotas to junior Marines who do not need it.

Some examples off the top of my head are a crew served weapon gunner or an MP.

Unles he is some kind of MP, the pistol training that he recieved would be of the most basic kind, even if he does carry one into combat. Pistol training takes a very far backseat to the rest of the training.
 
If you have to ask this type of question on an internet forum you are not qualifed to provide instruction to someone who will be going into harms way.

Enough said.

Send him to a instructor that will teach him how to fight with the pistol, not just shoot it.
 
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